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Moving away from hard grains for OTTB

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  • #21
    Originally posted by aknightstale View Post

    I've had a few people say that Purina does have corn in it. I tried to look up the ingredients list for the Healthy Edge, but haven't been able to find any. I hate when companies make it hard to see what they have in their feed. It definitely couldn't hurt to e-mail them to see what exactly they have in their feed, but I would like to change to a higher quality feed anyway.
    I have always used Purina feeds and been satisfied in the results and quality

    Good luck in finding a feed that works for you and your horse.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by candyappy View Post
      Is there no way to find out from Purina exactly what ingredients are in the Strategy feed you are using before you switch?

      If he is doing well on it now, you might want to know that before you switch him to something he may not do as well on.
      The ingredients as I currently have them are:

      Wheat middlings, dehydrated alfalfa meal, ground soybean hulls, cane molasses, dried beet pulp, ground rice hulls, soybean oil, ground corn, stabilized rice bran, vegetable oil, dehulled soybean meal, flaxseed

      and then the additional nutrients. Ground corn - big nope for me. On the surface it looks ok (corn aside), with ingredients very similar to something like TC Sr and other better (IMHO) feeds. The problem is you never know how much of these things, only that it's in descending order by weight.

      Originally posted by aknightstale View Post

      I have heard of California Trace. Reading the information on it, it looks like it's a good supplement in general, even with a fortified feed?
      Whether you should add it to a fortified feed really is going to depend on 2 things:
      1 - if you're feeding at least the minimally recommended amount of the fortified feed, and/or
      2 - if the forage quality is so low that even a reasonable amount of fortified feed doesn't make things good enough.

      I will have to test out TC Senior to see how it works for him. And thanks for the info about the SS triple 10, I'll be switching my mare off of it. After hearing more about ration balancers, I may do that since she's a bit of a chunker and I wasn't feeding enough for real nutritional value (3 lbs a day so she could get her supplements and not feel left out ).
      A balancer sounds perfect for her! TC 30, Purina Enrich Plus, whatever one you can get, though since you can get TC, I'd go with that over Purina

      I feel like I've learned quite a bit more through this post so thank you to everyone!

      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

      Comment


      • #23
        All feeds have guaranteed minimum nutrition. Some feeds have fixed formulas set and some don't. For instance I looked at one local feed that says oats and or corn and or wheat and or barley. Basically they use whatever grain is cheapest to get the nutrition. All feeds also have NSC levels. You may need to email the company to get all this info.

        Anyhow a good rule of thumb is to find the lowest NSC feed that will get you the nutrition and protein you want for that horse. Extra sugar isn't good for horses or people except for athletes that are burning off everything they eat.

        As a teen I feed a delicious sweet feed that was cracked oats barley and corn, bran, molasses, and mystery pellets. Except for the pellets, totally natiral whole food like a human meusli cereal! Fortunately I rode my little horse ridiculous hours speeds and distances and she burned it up. Also I liked the jet fueled horse back then.

        If I fed that to my current horse on an adult rider workload I bet she'd founder in 6 months.

        Natural isn't always better.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by aknightstale View Post

          My mistake using the wrong word. I wish there was a simple word to describe what I'm saying instead of a full sentence lol. Grains that have not been filled with corn/soy/artificial flavors, etc. Beet pulp and alfalfa are processed, yes, but when you buy it, there are no/less additives. So in that sense, it's less processed, for lack of a better word in my vocabulary. I'm also in the process of changing his supplements. I had him on SmartGain and SmartMuscle, but after figuring out the key ingredients and seeing what others had to say, I'm going with more simplified, "only the ingredients needed" forms (less or no fillers).
          I think you also need to separate what you think about commercialized human food and commercialized animal feed. Yes, there may be fillers, but it is unlikely that there are artificial flavors in horse feed. The only point of horse feed is calories and vitamin/minerals to ensure a complete diet - which is often necessary when a horse is fed hay. Processed human food.....totally different story and yes we should all avoid it as much as we can.

          There are better quality horse feeds than others; but I would not be afraid to feed a quality feed, nor would I avoid corn or soy specifically unless your horse has an issue with them. They are not inherently dangerous even if they are not something that would normally be part of a natural diet. (In fact, we should just drop any thought of a "natural" diet for a horse because there really isn't one anymore. Feral/wild horses aren't terribly common, and aren't necessarily healthier than domesticated ones.)

          I used to feed Triple Crown Senior and loved it; but due to the local feed store closing I now buy Nutrena Safe Choice Senior and Special Care for my horses and frankly, they do better on it than the Triple Crown. Remember that 95% (or more) of what they eat is forage. If the forage isn't great, I'd look for a high-quality, complete feed to make sure they get everything else they need.

          Comment


          • #25
            Also bagged horse feeds don't really have "fillers." They do have things like wheat middlings, distillers grains, pulp, and soy meal or husks, and alfalfa meal, but these are all protein sources. They are used to get the guaranteed protein on the nutrients list.

            The only flavoring I've come across in horse feeds is molasses and that is less common now.

            Comment


            • #26
              Supplemental protein is pretty much limited to soy in bagged feeds. You can use alfalfa in hay instead, or cubes or pellets.

              Given that your hay is iffy, the LAST thing you want to do is skip nutrition. You're getting that now from your grain. If you want to drop the grain, then start with a really solid vitamin/mineral supplement, and build from there. JB has given you a good list of several options.

              Also consider what you're asking of your barn. Beet pulp, alfalfa pellets, oil and your vit/mineral supplement can make a really nice supplemental meal, but it's going to need to be soaked, potentially for longer than ten minutes, or with hot water in the winter. Soaked feed also tends to be messy. Is your barn set up for that, and willing? I thought I was going to go that route when I brought the horses home, but found it to be a pita. I use legends carbcare performance instead, along with really great hay (including a lot of alfalfa.)

              You won't find an ingredient list for the strategy online because it's not a fixed formula. It can vary region to region, season to season. Check the tag on the bag for what's in yours.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                Yes, there may be fillers, but it is unlikely that there are artificial flavors in horse feed.
                I've actually seen some "artificial flavors"! I'm trying to remember what it was, but I'm nearly positive it was a pretty low-end feed.

                nor would I avoid corn
                I avoid corn out of principle, in that it's too easy to be contaminated with mycotoxins and not be screened for it. Cargill's Cleveland NC plant recently had a large recall list, including some lower end horse feeds, due to mycotoxin-contaminated grain (and I'm nearly positive it was the corn)
                (In fact, we should just drop any thought of a "natural" diet for a horse because there really isn't one anymore. Feral/wild horses aren't terribly common, and aren't necessarily healthier than domesticated ones.)
                Yes! We MUST stop comparing feral horses to domestic ones. OP, this is not directed at you!

                The ferals are smaller, don't work, get a larger variety of things going into their mouths, DO have hoof problems, do colic, do get laminitis, often come out of Winter thin (sometimes really thin), and die from things we can prevent or at least greatly reduce risks for. Just because a wild horse might run across a random plot of chia seeds, or rose plants at the hip stage, doesn't mean those things are a necessary part of the diet and things like beet pulp are bad, especially when designer feeds which claim how "natural' their food is but the amount of those things in a serving is minuscule.



                Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
                Also bagged horse feeds don't really have "fillers." They do have things like wheat middlings, distillers grains, pulp, and soy meal or husks, and alfalfa meal, but these are all protein sources.
                Some low quality feeds have peanut hulls - pretty much pure filler
                ______________________________
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                Comment


                • #28
                  Ok, that's pretty low end! We don't grow peanuts up in Canada so never seen that we do grow sugar beets and all the cereal crops

                  I've seen added flavors in horse treats, in the 5 lb bags but not in the 50lb feed.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by aknightstale View Post

                    My mistake using the wrong word. I wish there was a simple word to describe what I'm saying instead of a full sentence lol. Grains that have not been filled with corn/soy/artificial flavors, etc. Beet pulp and alfalfa are processed, yes, but when you buy it, there are no/less additives. So in that sense, it's less processed, for lack of a better word in my vocabulary. I'm also in the process of changing his supplements. I had him on SmartGain and SmartMuscle, but after figuring out the key ingredients and seeing what others had to say, I'm going with more simplified, "only the ingredients needed" forms (less or no fillers).
                    The real simple words are “commercial concentrate.” A grain is a plant seed, like corn or wheat or barley. Nothing is 100% “bad,” you just want the right combination of ingredients to meet your horses needs. Not sure what you mean by “fillers.” If you do know what an ingredient is, google it. Some products that may look like “fillers” are added to increase the fiber.
                    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
                      All feeds have guaranteed minimum nutrition. Some feeds have fixed formulas set and some don't. For instance I looked at one local feed that says oats and or corn and or wheat and or barley. Basically they use whatever grain is cheapest to get the nutrition. All feeds also have NSC levels. You may need to email the company to get all this info.

                      Anyhow a good rule of thumb is to find the lowest NSC feed that will get you the nutrition and protein you want for that horse. Extra sugar isn't good for horses or people except for athletes that are burning off everything they eat.

                      As a teen I feed a delicious sweet feed that was cracked oats barley and corn, bran, molasses, and mystery pellets. Except for the pellets, totally natiral whole food like a human meusli cereal! Fortunately I rode my little horse ridiculous hours speeds and distances and she burned it up. Also I liked the jet fueled horse back then.

                      If I fed that to my current horse on an adult rider workload I bet she'd founder in 6 months.

                      Natural isn't always better.
                      This is something I didn't realize about local feed stores. I know one of the few we have makes their own horse feed but I wouldn't touch it if someone paid me to use it (it's easily 30% corn). I also went through the sweet feed phase with my first horse...she was an off-track STB and we did TONS of trail riding so she certainly burned it off too! Back then, my idea of "changing feed" was giving more or less of the same feed depending on the workload...which is probably the only thing that saved us from dealing with founder/other health problems

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