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Live worms in poop of new horse - Doh NO WORMS!

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  • Live worms in poop of new horse - Doh NO WORMS!

    Update: Those were maggots. Horse has no worms. I feel kinda dumb, but I've never seen maggots in my other horses poop and they are both on Equitrol which is good stuff!

    *****************************

    Help me out before I can call the vet tomorrow AM. I have a new horse on my property who's been here about 1.5 weeks. I wormed him with Safeguard when he got here, but didn't really check his poop. He also spit about 1/2 out.

    I was noticing he has a little runny-ness from his rear and looked at his poops tonight. There were lots of live teeny tiny whitish worms. I've not seen these worms before but I'm thinking small styongyles? Anyway, I gave him another dose of Safeguard tonight and probably will continue with the powerpac after talking to the vet tomorrow. I also have some poop in a baggie ready to go.

    The vet was out to see him a few days ago and I asked him if he looked wormy. He said no, but I thought he looked a little bit wormy and obviously he is.

    My concern is the worms are live coming out. I think some were dead as well, but I know I saw lots moving

    ETA: He looks pretty good for a horse who's been thrown in a pasture for the last 2 years. Decent weight, good appetite, drinking, playing etc.
    Last edited by Serigraph; Aug. 16, 2010, 03:30 PM.

  • #2
    I'd call the vet and make sure you're dosing correctly. I've heard of horses with high worm loads colicing due to massive die off. I think you want a slow kill vs a massive one in cases like this. Anyway, get your vets advice asap!
    Fresh, Frozen & ISO Warmblood Breedings FB Group

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Serigraph View Post

      My concern is the worms are live coming out. I think some were dead as well, but I know I saw lots moving
      normal...most wormers work by stunning the little nasties such that they release the grip of where ever they are plugged in
      some are still wigglers

      Tamara in TN
      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Should they still be coming out a week after I wormed him? Or does that just mean he has a ton?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Serigraph View Post
          Should they still be coming out a week after I wormed him? Or does that just mean he has a ton?
          well when I worm someone I can say that there is a normal ordered progression of "killling" :

          tiny red worms within a day
          small white worms 2-3 days
          big white worms 3-4 days
          stomach bots somewhere at 3 days

          if I double dose someone I may see BIG white worms again at 6-7 days

          there is a certain satisfaction with seeing the little nasties gasping their last

          Tamara in TN
          Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
          I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post

            there is a certain satisfaction with seeing the little nasties gasping their last

            Tamara in TN
            Yes!

            I had a never-been-wormed horse join my farm, and my vet instructed me to worm her with 1 tube ivermectin every 3 weeks for about 4 months as she had such a high parasite load that he was worried about her colicking if we were too aggressive.

            Comment


            • #7
              What, no pictures?

              Yes to what the other said. Treatment is good, but too aggressive and it can cause colic. It's better to have the things come out than stay in the horse.

              Comment


              • #8
                Maybe tape?
                The tapes we had in a pony we brought in didn't resemble the tapes I'd seen in dogs and cats before but they were teeny and white and alive!
                You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pinworms are also tiny white wigglers, and come out alive. Any 'powdery' looking stuff around the anus? Can look just like white or yellow 'powder' or just flaking skin.

                  A single dose of safeguard is basically useless, and only creates resistance...

                  In my research early this spring we decided we were dealing with either pinworms or small strongyles. I *think* pinworms were the verdict. A nuisance type parasite, but much more harmless than others.
                  InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                  Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Watermark Farm View Post
                    Yes!

                    I had a never-been-wormed horse join my farm, and my vet instructed me to worm her with 1 tube ivermectin every 3 weeks for about 4 months as she had such a high parasite load that he was worried about her colicking if we were too aggressive.
                    Gaaaaahhhhhhhhh

                    Sorry, that makes me NUTS. That is so old-school on the vet's part, and not even very good old school.

                    Ivermectin is still (thankfully, but not for long at this rate) 100% effective at killing most parasites. 1 dose of it cleaned out your horse for the most part. Subsequent doses just exposed juvenile parasites not targeted by the chemical, to the chemical, and increased the chances of them growing to adulthood and being resistant to ivermectin.

                    Ivermectin IS an aggressive dewormer. Even the vet's logic doesn't make sense.

                    If "1 tube" was not a full dose, by weight, for the horse, then that was even WORSE in terms of resistance. It could easily leave the strongest adult worms alive, alive to produce a new generation with a bit more strength against the chemical.

                    Would the vet have prescribed a partial dose, or improper dosing schedule, for an antibiotic?

                    The correct strategy would be to do a FEC to see just what the deal was. If there was a valid concern about a large die-off, then use a PROPER dose of Safeguard (fenbendazole) or Strongid (pyrantel pamoate) which to not target all worms, and have a high enough resistance issue the likelihood of a full kill is pretty low. 4 weeks later use a correct dose of ivermectin (or Equimax, to get tapeworms too).

                    "never been wormed" does not equate to "high worm load". Many horses have a much higher immunity to parasite loads than people give them credit for. Appropriate deworming - as much as necessary, as little as possible - is what will save us in the end.

                    Otherwise, ivermectin and moxidectin will become less than effective, and we'll be in real trouble again.

                    Gah, sorry, that all just makes me want to run screaming down the street.
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                      normal...most wormers work by stunning the little nasties such that they release the grip of where ever they are plugged in
                      some are still wigglers

                      Tamara in TN
                      My poor DD has been waiting to see some live ones for years...never happened. It's like Christmas the morning after...she jumps out of bed and runs out there to check...nothing. But this was also the kid who knew the life cycle of the flea at 2 years old. She's such a farmer
                      I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

                      Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        I talked to the vet this morning and he told me to give it another week before I do anything to see what happens with the Safeguard I gave last night.

                        Interestingly, in a fresh poop load this morning there are none. I'm taking both samples to the vet though.

                        Sorry I don't have pics. I forgot this board is the nastier the better

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I haven't seen live worms in any of our horses' poop since I dunno- 1971?

                          Had a close call when SO came in all excited from the paddock, saying there were worms in the poop. Went to look, and some big old earthworms had taken up residence in the moist pooballs.

                          We do annual fecal counts in the fall and as a result have reduced our worming schedule to twice a year- its all that is needed for us. We are hoping our parasites ar still sensitive to Ivermectin- its on sale this week at our local tack shop!
                          "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I remember when we tubed our horses after the first frost and the manure was loaded with dead bots. Now, thanks to ivemectin, we never see any in the manure, and almost none buzzing around the legs. They are remarkably fewer these days.

                            However, I have just had a fecal done for occult blood and parasites. It came back negative for parasites, but some occult blood. Giving him a dose of Quest Plus and another one in ten days to loosen any attached little b...s. This on a horse who has never been out of rotation or late on worming.
                            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Serigraph View Post
                              Update: Those were maggots. Horse has no worms. I feel kinda dumb, but I've never seen maggots in my other horses poop and they are both on Equitrol which is good stuff!

                              *****************************

                              Help me out before I can call the vet tomorrow AM. I have a new horse on my property who's been here about 1.5 weeks. I wormed him with Safeguard when he got here, but didn't really check his poop. He also spit about 1/2 out.

                              I was noticing he has a little runny-ness from his rear and looked at his poops tonight. There were lots of live teeny tiny whitish worms. I've not seen these worms before but I'm thinking small styongyles? Anyway, I gave him another dose of Safeguard tonight and probably will continue with the powerpac after talking to the vet tomorrow. I also have some poop in a baggie ready to go.

                              The vet was out to see him a few days ago and I asked him if he looked wormy. He said no, but I thought he looked a little bit wormy and obviously he is.

                              My concern is the worms are live coming out. I think some were dead as well, but I know I saw lots moving

                              ETA: He looks pretty good for a horse who's been thrown in a pasture for the last 2 years. Decent weight, good appetite, drinking, playing etc.
                              if after the 2nd dose and you still seeing them not so much in the pooh but more in his bum as well as the pooh then call a vet asap worms damage cna cuase gut problems and eye problems as worms can migrate through out the body cuasing uv, also overlaoded wormy horses then can get parts of there intestines comming through ther bottom if not treated asap, vet have the faiclites of a much stronger wormer that whats on any market place

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Really? Maggots look rather like squirming rice.

                                I've never actually seen maggots on manure before either. Don't they prefer flesh?
                                InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
                                  Really? Maggots look rather like squirming rice.

                                  I've never actually seen maggots on manure before either. Don't they prefer flesh?
                                  some are rice-size, others are much larger. whatever is in my stinky traps has maggots that are almost an inch long... nasty wiggly things (need that vomit icon here)! just going on houseflies, they will lay eggs in flesh, manure, compost, or even wet soil. it's no wonder they're so hard to keep in check!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    meant to add - to Serigraph - there's so many species of flies don't be embarrassed! Consider it the new thing you learned for today!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by oldpony66 View Post
                                      just going on houseflies, they will lay eggs in flesh, manure, compost, or even wet soil. it's no wonder they're so hard to keep in check!
                                      as a little sidebar,you can tell the higher sugar and damper hays by the flies...they are drawn to both, over low sugar and drier hays

                                      now before the squealing starts about "my hay's not WET!!!",
                                      these differences in moisture would be from 8-13% or so and far below what any human could feel or see w/o a hay test

                                      Tamara in TN
                                      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                      Comment

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