Sport Horse Spotlight

Real Estate Spotlight

Hart_Barn 1

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Suspensory tear that doesn’t show up on scan?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Suspensory tear that doesn’t show up on scan?

    I just sold my ottb mare and have been leasing a very game quarab pony. She came back from an eventing clinic head bobbing at the trot. My vet blocked her to the high suspensory. With that block, she trotted sound. He ultrasounded her today and saw nothing that stuck out. We are still moving forward with the protocol for rehabbing a high suspensory for the time being. I’m just wondering if anyone else has had this experience?

  • #2
    A few years back, my horse had a suspensory problem and she was intermittently head bobbing. My vet came out with her portable ultrasound and she could not see anything definitive. I hauled my horse to this super fancy lameness vet about an hour away who had a much nicer ultrasound and I was able to get a definitive picture of what
    was going on. I hauled there 3-4 times through the rehab to make sure the healing was going okay. The injury was small, but a little jagged or something. So, yes.


    • #3
      How experienced is your vet? It's definitely a bit of an art.


      • #4
        The high suspensory area in particular is a difficult area to ultrasound (hindlimb).

        My vet said if you nerve block and then ultrasound, it can interfere with the ultrasound. I don't know how true that is, but I do tend to trust my vet's opinion. So, possibly you've got a difficult shot to get, with variables working against you.


        • #5
          It’s definitely a hard area to image, my own vet actually declined to do it himself and referred us to a clinic to get the ultrasound. That being said my horse was ultimately diagnosed as having a bilateral strain in both hind high suspensories. There were no lesions or thickening visible on the ultrasound.


          • #6
            It doesn't have to be a tear or lesion for the horse to be head-bobbing lame with a suspensory. I had a young horse with a hind suspensory strain, no tear, no lesion, no measurable thickening. It took blocks, an ultrasound, a bone scan, and an MRI to ultimately find what could only be described as a "suspicious area" at the origin. But as my vet said, diagnostics don't show us pain, and we have to believe them when they are telling us it hurts. He suspected my horse not only tweaked the suspensory but also some of the tiny ligaments/tendons around the hock that we couldn't see, based on the pain level the horse had. We rested and rehabbed him with the protocol for a suspensory, and gave him extra time when we felt he needed to go slow, and he came back fully sound. He wasn't a match for me but is doing well in his new job. The blocks are telling you something is there even if you can't see it.


            • #7
              You can't ultrasound the suspensory accurately after a nerve block. The block causes swelling that interferes with the ability to get an accurate picture. My vet will come back 2 days later if she needs to ultrasound something that she's already put a direct block in.

              Separately, it can be hard to find bony involvement/detachment at the origin if you don't have a quality machine and a trained eye.


              • #8
                Originally posted by tipzythegreat View Post
                The high suspensory area in particular is a difficult area to ultrasound (hindlimb).

                My vet said if you nerve block and then ultrasound, it can interfere with the ultrasound. I don't know how true that is, but I do tend to trust my vet's opinion. So, possibly you've got a difficult shot to get, with variables working against you.
                The block adds a lot of fluid to the area, so an ultrasound right after a nerve block is not likely to be accurate in this area.


                • Original Poster

                  The blocks were not done on the same day as the ultrasound. My vet did his residency at Rood and Riddle, with a tb race farm in CA and then worked at McKinley Peters under Dr.Scneider (arguably best lameness vet in PNW). So for a country vet, he’s had a lot of experience. He did say that his mobile machine might not pick up a small tear or lesion that a higher resolution machine in a hospital might. That said, I trotted her a couple strides tonight on my hand walk and she did seem like she’s improved some already. It’s hard to say totally with just a few strides though obviously.
                  Last edited by Rainier; Jun. 27, 2019, 11:22 PM.


                  • #10
                    Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that my pony's doppelganger is lame. I hope it's not in fact a suspensory tear and she feels better very soon.

                    Did your vet x-ray the hock? My understanding is that blocking the hock can block the high suspensory, so I'd think it could work the other way too.
                    Building and Managing the Small Horse Farm:


                    • #11
                      Okay Rainier ! Glad to hear it wasn't done on the same day. It is still a difficult place to image.

                      Suspensories can sometimes get better with rest. My horse was totally sound despite significant fiber disruption of his proximal suspensory.

                      I will say if there's any chance it is a suspensory, don't trot her at all. Even to see if she's sound. If you aren't convinced it's the high suspensory, I'd get additional imaging. Prepare yourself for months of rehab if it is a suspensory. Good luck to you and your girl!


                      • #12
                        Yes, a horse I had was head bobbing lame and was blocked to high suspensory to the front leg. Ultrasound several days later did not show any damage but the vet said the area is notoriously hard to get a clear view of due to the bone. He didn’t think an MRI was necessary and we treated as a high suspensory with a series of 3 shockwaves, stall rest, hand walking then finally under tack walking. I want to say it was about 3-4 months before we were cleared to slowly begin adding trot to the rehab schedule. Hind high suspensory strains/injuries can become chronic so take your time with rehab.


                        • Original Poster

                          I’m into my second month of stall rest/rehab. According to the protocol i’m Using (Dr. Schbeider’s here in WA), in a month I start gradually adding trot in-hand. I’m not sure how to do that as I literally can’t run because of a knee injury? Use bike? Gator? Also, i can’t remember if I asked, but do most do their hand walking and trotting on a harder surface or in an arena?


                          • #14
                            Dr. Gillis told me that you want to avoid uneven footing most of all. Sand or dirt is OK as long as it's not half way up the hoof wall. That being said, I do try and stick to hard flat surfaces as much as I can.

                            As far as trotting in hand... that is a conundrum. As someone who is fit and not injured, I had trouble jogging with my horse for 4 minutes in hand (I simply didn't have time to ride that day). Can you trot US? Or have someone else trot US?

                            I once took my dog on a bike ride. She pulled me off and dragged me down my dirt road. She wasn't a big dog. I'll never forget it though. I would really not think either option is safe. Can you walk longer while you heal? Walking longer won't hurt!


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rainier View Post
                              I’m into my second month of stall rest/rehab. According to the protocol i’m Using (Dr. Schbeider’s here in WA), in a month I start gradually adding trot in-hand. I’m not sure how to do that as I literally can’t run because of a knee injury? Use bike? Gator? Also, i can’t remember if I asked, but do most do their hand walking and trotting on a harder surface or in an arena?
                              It would not hurt at this point to email or contact your vet, for clarification on what kind of footing.

                              For most, it seems to be in the arena, straight lines only -- and arena footing must not be deep. For that reason we usually did rehab work in the outdoor, which was bigger, and harder footing due to exposure and type of footing.

                              I would not use a bike -- or even a gator -- unless the horse is already used to trotting in hand on a gator. Rehab is not the time to teach a horse something new like that. Any way you can pay a teen to jog in hand under supervision? Or possibly pony off of a seasoned very excellent pony-horse?
                              AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012


                              • #16
                                I'd ask your vet about modifying your plan to see if you can introduce rider weight before you get to trotting. Might mean spending more time at the walk, but I've done a little bit of in hand straight line trotting with long lines but this is not fun (I'm only moderately sound myself). Mostly, if a large circle is not allowed (20m+/-), I don't do much in the way of in-hand trotting. Walking is very good for them, so I really don't see any hurry in getting to the trot.

                                You might be able to use a gator if the horse is already dead broke to doing that, but even so, I don't think I'd necessarily put a rehab horse in that situation, since they can be nuttier than usual. Definitely not a bike--too unstable for you.


                                • #17
                                  I've never had a vet recommend trotting a rehab horse before putting a rider up.


                                  • #18
                                    If you don’t think that trotting in hand is viable, ask vet for alternatives. If vet insists, pay a professional. Not a teen. The horse may get a bit over stimulated and you don’t need to get a kid hurt.

                                    Add me to the the camp of walking under saddle before trotting. Current vet (and the BN referral vet) gave me the option of tack walking a horse with a bone bruise and slight collateral ligament irritation. Vet says he’s almost always in favor or tack walking, if it can be managed safely.
                                    The Evil Chem Prof


                                    • #19
                                      After going through tons of ultrasounds for my own high risk pregnancy, the quality of the ultrasound images you get are going to vary significantly based on the machine used and the person performing the ultrasound. I've seen ultrasound machines that looked like they were 20+ years old to state of the art machines where just the replacement wand costs $30k.

                                      I would either treat as a suspensory injury and do the rehab protocol or take the horse to a hospital for a better ultrasound. When my horse had a suspensory injury, the vets wanted to do an MRI as it is more definitive than an ultrasound. But the cost of the MRI was basically as much as the surgery itself and it also required the risk of full anasethia. There were significant enough findings on the ultrasound and we were able to rule out hock issues with comparison radiographs. This was all done after nerve blocking had shown the general area of concern.

                                      I had my horse on stall rest for 3 months. Then had the surgery performed after she had clean ultrasounds. She's been better than ever since restarting under saddle work in January 2018.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        I wonder what people think about this article?

                                        I’ve been going off of a fairly old rehab protocol, and this one was from 2016 I think? The pony is getting hard to handle walking in-hand and is sound at the trot (just trotting her for a bit in-hand). I’m thinking that walking her under saddle is better than her frequently getting away at trotting or cantering. She’s six weeks into rehab.