Sport Horse Spotlight

calucci_cf_sq

Real Estate Spotlight

97 Spring Lane (1)

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Nutrena "Safe Choice" Feeds - Don't seem safe to me

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Nutrena "Safe Choice" Feeds - Don't seem safe to me

    Nutrena Safe Choice Special Care:

    Percentages noted:
    Starch 11, Sugar 4, Fat 7

    I think the Senior is similar or higher values.

    Reading on ECIR:
    Starch is 100 % converted to glucose (not good)

    Nutrena uses wording:
    Controlled,
    Dietary Starch,
    Whole food basis,
    Look at NFC

    I could possibly see where the fat could help with insulin spike - but what gives?

    Dietary starch (what's that and difference between - dunno - starch ???) would still convert to glucose wouldn't it?

    Not a feed I would consider for an IR or IR prone horse.
    Calling those feeds "Safe" seems deceiving to me.

    Am I missing something?

    I went to check out a barn. They only feed Nutrena.

    If the "safe" feeds are that high in starch/sugar - Egads - what about their other feeds?

  • #2
    Marketing
    Patience pays.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's safer than, say, sweet feed.

      But yeah, not particularly great for metabolic critters.

      Comment


      • #4
        Safe Choice has been marketed this way since it came out 13-14 years ago. Is it a safer choice than sweet feed? You betcha! Does the name of a feed excuse the horse owner from doing due diligence? Nope.

        None of the words you mentioned Nutrena using to describe the feed are incorrect technically. As far as fat content, there is nothing wrong with added fat at it provides a great source of energy for horses as long as they are not overweight.
        "You can't fix stupid"- Ron White

        Comment


        • #5
          98
          Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
          Nutrena Safe Choice Special Care:

          Percentages noted:
          Starch 11, Sugar 4, Fat 7

          I think the Senior is similar or higher values.

          Reading on ECIR:
          Starch is 100 % converted to glucose (not good)

          Nutrena uses wording:
          Controlled,
          Dietary Starch,
          Whole food basis,
          Look at NFC

          I could possibly see where the fat could help with insulin spike - but what gives?

          Dietary starch (what's that and difference between - dunno - starch ???) would still convert to glucose wouldn't it?

          Not a feed I would consider for an IR or IR prone horse.
          Calling those feeds "Safe" seems deceiving to me.

          Am I missing something?

          I went to check out a barn. They only feed Nutrena.

          If the "safe" feeds are that high in starch/sugar - Egads - what about their other feeds?
          Compared to.... what exactly?

          JB Thoughts?
          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
            Nutrena Safe Choice Special Care:

            Percentages noted:
            Starch 11, Sugar 4, Fat 7

            I think the Senior is similar or higher values.

            Reading on ECIR:
            Starch is 100 % converted to glucose (not good)

            Nutrena uses wording:
            Controlled,
            Dietary Starch,
            Whole food basis,
            Look at NFC

            I could possibly see where the fat could help with insulin spike - but what gives?

            Dietary starch (what's that and difference between - dunno - starch ???) would still convert to glucose wouldn't it?

            Not a feed I would consider for an IR or IR prone horse.
            Calling those feeds "Safe" seems deceiving to me.

            Am I missing something?

            I went to check out a barn. They only feed Nutrena.

            If the "safe" feeds are that high in starch/sugar - Egads - what about their other feeds?
            How many pounds fed how many times a day? Are any of the horses IR or IR prone? It's all relative.

            Comment


            • #7
              Try Hygain Zero.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cutter99 View Post
                Safe Choice has been marketed this way since it came out 13-14 years ago. Is it a safer choice than sweet feed? You betcha! Does the name of a feed excuse the horse owner from doing due diligence? Nope.

                None of the words you mentioned Nutrena using to describe the feed are incorrect technically. As far as fat content, there is nothing wrong with added fat at it provides a great source of energy for horses as long as they are not overweight.
                This, exactly.

                I feed Nutrena Safe Choice Senior to my senior, and Safe Choice Special Care to my easy keepers. But I obviously also read the fine print and know what the NSC is, especially for my metabolic ones.

                If you don't have a metabolic horse, what exactly is your concern?

                Comment


                • #9
                  "Safe Choice" was used because when they came out, they were a lot safer choice than most anything on the market.

                  15% NSC (sugar + starch) isn't high (which is typically considered 20% or higher) and is perfectly fine for probably all normal/healthy/non-metabolic horses. Especially considering the 5-8lb most of them are probably eating (or even only 4lb), compared to their forage which is likely higher NSC and consumed at a much higher rate.

                  But none of the Nutrena feeds are any that I would consider for a metabolic horse, unless it was the ration balancer. I'm sure there are some metabolic horses who are eating lower amounts of any of these feeds and are just fine. 4lb of 15% NSC isn't that big a deal unless they're pretty sensitive. But they just aren't something I'd choose first, or recommend first.

                  It's pure marketing to use terms like "controlled starch". But, it may mean you can be sure their values won't change, where other feeds might vary a little bit.

                  7% fat is marginally high, relative to the 3% of typical forages, and 10% (and even a little higher I think) for the "high fat" feeds.

                  "whole food basis"

                  It's all relative. It would be really hard for them to change the name of that Safe Choice line at this point, but who knows - as more research is done, as more people become aware of high sugar/starch feeds, maybe they will. Heck, Progressive and ProElite feeds are merging, so stranger things have happened.
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    JB - what is currently recommended for metabolic horses ?

                    * this information can’t be printed and read too many times IMHO

                    Thanks ~
                    Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      most typically need an overall diet less than 12% NSC, many of those less than 10%.
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JB View Post
                        most typically need an overall diet less than 12% NSC, many of those less than 10%.
                        I was aiming for your listing some feeds you recommend that meet the ^ requirements ....as a PSA...

                        Cothers ... listen to you ... always !

                        Thanks !
                        Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh, gotcha.

                          Triple Crown Lite, Purina Well Solve line, TC Low Starch, Seminole Wellness Perform Safe, Blue Seal Carb Guard, Buckeye Safe N Easy, KER Re-Leve , Poulin E-Tech Carb Safe, Cavalor Fiber Force, Haystack Special Blend and Low Carb/Low Fat, are all feeds < than 15%, most <= 12%, several <= 10%

                          There are more that are in the 15% range, almost all ration balancers are less than 12%, and I'm sure there are some others I've forgotten or don't know about
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JB View Post
                            Oh, gotcha.

                            Triple Crown Lite, Purina Well Solve line, TC Low Starch, Seminole Wellness Perform Safe, Blue Seal Carb Guard, Buckeye Safe N Easy, KER Re-Leve , Poulin E-Tech Carb Safe, Cavalor Fiber Force, Haystack Special Blend and Low Carb/Low Fat, are all feeds < than 15%, most <= 12%, several <= 10%

                            There are more that are in the 15% range, almost all ration balancers are less than 12%, and I'm sure there are some others I've forgotten or don't know about
                            ^ Worth repeating and repeating for helping equine Metabolic victims and their struggling / worried owners.

                            Thank you JB worth your weight in GOLD !

                            Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I personally am not a fan of Nutrena feeds because I find their marketing deceptive, and think other companies produce better feeds with lower NSC values. They also gave one of my horses diarrhea.

                              All of mine eat triple crown senior, or Purina's equivalent of a ration balancer, along with Amplify and Supersport for select animals that need that level of supplementation.

                              Does that mean I have a problem if other people feed Nutrena? Nah. Feed the animal in front of you. I just don't personally like that food or have any use for it.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                Oh, gotcha.

                                Triple Crown Lite, Purina Well Solve line, TC Low Starch, Seminole Wellness Perform Safe, Blue Seal Carb Guard, Buckeye Safe N Easy, KER Re-Leve , Poulin E-Tech Carb Safe, Cavalor Fiber Force, Haystack Special Blend and Low Carb/Low Fat, are all feeds < than 15%, most <= 12%, several <= 10%

                                There are more that are in the 15% range, almost all ration balancers are less than 12%, and I'm sure there are some others I've forgotten or don't know about
                                Triple crown senior is about 12% NSC so that can go on the list as well

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Haha yes, how could I forget that one!
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment

                                  Working...
                                  X