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Silver Lining Herbs & Hind Leg Stiffness-Any Thoughts? UPDATED-Pictures

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  • Silver Lining Herbs & Hind Leg Stiffness-Any Thoughts? UPDATED-Pictures

    My gelding cut the inside of his right hock on barbed wire in February. I took him to the vet and the wound was luckily superficial. She put him on Uniprim just in case of infection for 5 days and Bute to help with the pain and swelling. I also was given Hibitane cream to put on the wound-which was difficult to put on as he didn’t want me anywhere near his leg. It was -40 here when it happened so I put ice and snow where his leg was swollen (which was above the cut) since I didn’t have a heated barn to cold hose him in. The swelling went down and the cut had since healed up nicely.

    However, I have noticed that he is “off”
    on his hind end. He looks stiff and almost peg legged. When he trots you can see his right hip dip and he seems to prefer to canter than trot. I rode him today for the first time since October and I could definitely feel his right hip dropping. I had a friend watch him while I rode and she agreed with me that he looked stiff on his back end and that the right side was worse than the left side. She said that he looked to be moving better as the ride progressed.

    My question is-could he be stiff because he was not used all winter and is sore and that maybe he just needs to be slowly conditioned? He is kept 24/7 in a pasture so he is able to move around freely. Could the scar tissue from the injury also be a possibility of why he is stiff? I have started him on the Silver Lining Herbs supplement Hoof and Bone in hopes that helps. Has anyone else tried it with any results?

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by SLS; May. 30, 2019, 05:27 PM.

  • #2
    It sounds unlikely to that it's related to the cut if it was that minor and is now healed. It's possible he strained or fractured something in his SI/ pelvis etc. if he was caught in wire. Is he older? Does he move around much on his own? I would probably back off and re-start him much more lightly, with a couple of weeks of mostly just walking in increasing amounts (especially hills) and build up to asking for trot/ canter. If he still feels off at that point, get a vet to evaluate.

    Comment


    • #3
      Vet exam - you can't start treating what you don't know

      Yes, scar tissue can feel weird enough to make them mechanically lame. He may have started developing some arthritis there, unrelated to the injury. I would (safely) start feeling your way top to bottom of the left leg, feel how things feel, then do the same to the right leg, and then if it's safe to stand behind him, feel them together. See if anything seems different.
      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

      Comment


      • #4
        If the wound was superficial, I would say it is unrelated to the lameness you're seeing. I would say either arthritis or an injury that happened when you weren't riding. Does he have any swelling or thickening in his legs? Any heat? Could even be an abscess... only a vet could stay for sure.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          He just turned 7 two weeks ago. He moves around a lot on his own. His pasture is actually quite hilly as well. I rode home very lightly yesterday just to see if I could feel better what I thought I could see. He has no heat in his legs or swelling. He lets me feel his legs now that his cuts are healed. I will feel and compare. So far I haven’t noticed a difference in the two but I will pay careful attention when I do. His feet are good-no cracks no abscess and they were recently trimmed.

          I don’t want to start injecting his hocks as I don’t compete with him. Any alternatives to hock injections? I think I am going to try the chiropractor that comes into our area, apparently he’s very good.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SLS View Post
            He just turned 7 two weeks ago. He moves around a lot on his own. His pasture is actually quite hilly as well. I rode home very lightly yesterday just to see if I could feel better what I thought I could see. He has no heat in his legs or swelling. He lets me feel his legs now that his cuts are healed. I will feel and compare. So far I haven’t noticed a difference in the two but I will pay careful attention when I do. His feet are good-no cracks no abscess and they were recently trimmed.

            I don’t want to start injecting his hocks as I don’t compete with him. Any alternatives to hock injections? I think I am going to try the chiropractor that comes into our area, apparently he’s very good.
            Ok you are really bouncing around here with your ideas.

            If you are worried you should get a good lameness vet out to do some imaging of the hock and leg. You will then know what if anything is going on there. You do not need to get the hocks injected just because you have radiographs taken. These are separate procedures.

            Typically a chiropractor works on the back and neck. They can't do anything for the hocks. If there are problems in the spine they can address that.

            OTC supplements are harmless but they will not fix an arthritic hock, uncomfortable scar tissue, or an SI joint that is out of whack.

            If the initial wound was serious enough that horse favored that leg for a couple of weeks, that could be giving him lingering back pain

            Comment


            • #7
              Is it the same leg that he got cut on wire? Depending on how it got cut , is it possible he injured himself getting his foot out of the fence and you never noticed? Until you know for certain where it is hurting him you will just be guessing.

              I had a horse be lame just like you describe. I had just started lunging her after a Winter lay-off. I checked her foot and in cleaning it out ( more thoroughly) I found a tiny soft spot in the crack( along the frog) and my cleaning caused it to burst and she was fine from then on.

              He could be lame for any number of reasons.

              Have a vet out to evaluate so you can eliminate the guessing.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by candyappy View Post
                Is it the same leg that he got cut on wire? Depending on how it got cut , is it possible he injured himself getting his foot out of the fence and you never noticed? Until you know for certain where it is hurting him you will just be guessing.

                I had a horse be lame just like you describe. I had just started lunging her after a Winter lay-off. I checked her foot and in cleaning it out ( more thoroughly) I found a tiny soft spot in the crack( along the frog) and my cleaning caused it to burst and she was fine from then on.

                He could be lame for any number of reasons.

                Have a vet out to evaluate so you can eliminate the guessing.

                Ya he’s dropping the hip on the same side the wire cut is on. I rode him for 45 minutes yesterday just at a walk and a trot and when I moved him in a circle to the right you could really feel the right hip drop. I did canter him a tiny bit just to see and the hip drop was not as noticeable. Even when he’s out in the pasture he prefers to canter over trot. That’s why I keep wondering if it’s not scar tissue causing his lack of fluid movement. When he first cut himself he had a lot of swelling above the hock. The vet figured he was caught for a bit before he got himself free from the wire. She figured he had a lack of circulation and that’s what caused the swelling. She said he would take a while to heal up. I really believe his problem stems from his wire incident as he moved perfectly fine before it happened.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SLS View Post


                  Ya he’s dropping the hip on the same side the wire cut is on. I rode him for 45 minutes yesterday just at a walk and a trot and when I moved him in a circle to the right you could really feel the right hip drop. I did canter him a tiny bit just to see and the hip drop was not as noticeable. Even when he’s out in the pasture he prefers to canter over trot. That’s why I keep wondering if it’s not scar tissue causing his lack of fluid movement. When he first cut himself he had a lot of swelling above the hock. The vet figured he was caught for a bit before he got himself free from the wire. She figured he had a lack of circulation and that’s what caused the swelling. She said he would take a while to heal up. I really believe his problem stems from his wire incident as he moved perfectly fine before it happened.
                  Well, maybe get an MRI that can show soft tissue.

                  Herbal supplements won't fix that.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Would front leg lameness cause my gelding’s hip to drop? His stride is not short in the hind end-he just seems to be moving a bit stiff and has the hip drop. However on his RF he is not picking that foot up as high as his LF, even when he walks. I’m just wondering if he’s looking off on the hind end because he’s compensating for his RF.

                    Anyone ever see/experience this?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SLS View Post
                      Would front leg lameness cause my gelding’s hip to drop? His stride is not short in the hind end-he just seems to be moving a bit stiff and has the hip drop. However on his RF he is not picking that foot up as high as his LF, even when he walks. I’m just wondering if he’s looking off on the hind end because he’s compensating for his RF.

                      Anyone ever see/experience this?
                      When you get the vet out for an exam, don't be totally fixated on the hock. You might have a problem further up the back, or s shoulder problem.

                      Also hind leg problems can be tricky to diagnose. And yes. Once one leg is off for a period of time, the horse can end up lame in other legs from compensating.

                      Which came first? Thats a huge question.

                      Also IME most people don't watch their horses move very carefully until.there is a problem, and then they over scrutinize. So sometimes they only see long term issues after they are scrutinizing for an acute injury.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                        When you get the vet out for an exam, don't be totally fixated on the hock. You might have a problem further up the back, or s shoulder problem.

                        Also hind leg problems can be tricky to diagnose. And yes. Once one leg is off for a period of time, the horse can end up lame in other legs from compensating.

                        Which came first? Thats a huge question.

                        Also IME most people don't watch their horses move very carefully until.there is a problem, and then they over scrutinize. So sometimes they only see long term issues after they are scrutinizing for an acute injury.
                        I’ve always watched his movement closely-I like to know how my horse moves normally do I can more easily recognize if something is off.

                        I guess if I think back, he did seem a bit lame on his RF (this was after he was tearing around his pasture one night when he was full of high jinx)-but it straightened up right away and he was perfectly fine so I chalked it up to a misstep. He was used all fall to round up cattle and never had an off step.

                        He was sound all winter until he cut is RH leg at the hock-but truth be told he wasn’t showing any signs of lameness.

                        His RH did swell up about a good month after he cut himself on the back of his leg between the hock and the fetlock-the swelling happened again after he decided to go for a tear and buck around his pen. I iced it and the swelling went down-again no lameness, maybe just a bit stiff.

                        He was then used one day ((without me knowing) we farm cattle, so my guy is used occasionally by the guys to move cattle), and after that his RH was swelled in the same spot again so I cold hosed him and the swelling went away-to note there was no heat at all when the swelling occurred. He didn’t come up sore until a few days after he was used and he’s been off since. I rode him very lightly a few days ago just so I could feel his movement and he felt good on the front end to me and my friend who was watching him said he looked good on the front end but he had a hip drop on the right which was more pronounced when we circled to the right and it was way more noticeable at a trot than the walk.

                        He does have a funny RF pastern-(it’s always looked funny from the day I got him almost 2 years ago). It’s hard and bony and looks a lot like high ringbone. I can pick up that foot and move the joint in all directions and he doesn’t flinch. He also is UTD in his feet (he’s barefoot). My brother in law who knows horses thinks he does have ringbone (we have a mare here who has it) and that the reason he looks off on his hind end is because he’a compensating for his RF.

                        Lameness is so hard to figure out-I guess he’ll need a lameness exam-I was just hoping someone would have an idea if it is front end or hind end and if it is because he hasn’t completely healed from his wire cut and just needs to be slowly brought back to working condition.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SLS View Post

                          I’ve always watched his movement closely-I like to know how my horse moves normally do I can more easily recognize if something is off.

                          I guess if I think back, he did seem a bit lame on his RF (this was after he was tearing around his pasture one night when he was full of high jinx)-but it straightened up right away and he was perfectly fine so I chalked it up to a misstep. He was used all fall to round up cattle and never had an off step.

                          He was sound all winter until he cut is RH leg at the hock-but truth be told he wasn’t showing any signs of lameness.

                          His RH did swell up about a good month after he cut himself on the back of his leg between the hock and the fetlock-the swelling happened again after he decided to go for a tear and buck around his pen. I iced it and the swelling went down-again no lameness, maybe just a bit stiff.

                          He was then used one day ((without me knowing) we farm cattle, so my guy is used occasionally by the guys to move cattle), and after that his RH was swelled in the same spot again so I cold hosed him and the swelling went away-to note there was no heat at all when the swelling occurred. He didn’t come up sore until a few days after he was used and he’s been off since. I rode him very lightly a few days ago just so I could feel his movement and he felt good on the front end to me and my friend who was watching him said he looked good on the front end but he had a hip drop on the right which was more pronounced when we circled to the right and it was way more noticeable at a trot than the walk.

                          He does have a funny RF pastern-(it’s always looked funny from the day I got him almost 2 years ago). It’s hard and bony and looks a lot like high ringbone. I can pick up that foot and move the joint in all directions and he doesn’t flinch. He also is UTD in his feet (he’s barefoot). My brother in law who knows horses thinks he does have ringbone (we have a mare here who has it) and that the reason he looks off on his hind end is because he’a compensating for his RF.

                          Lameness is so hard to figure out-I guess he’ll need a lameness exam-I was just hoping someone would have an idea if it is front end or hind end and if it is because he hasn’t completely healed from his wire cut and just needs to be slowly brought back to working condition.
                          We really can't diagnose that specifically on-line. Maybe if you could post some good videos of him.moving on both directions and away from the camera and on a circle. There are lots of people on here with a good eye for these things (better than me ).

                          Even so there might be different opinions.

                          If you are concerned and want a diagnosis you need to get a good lameness specialist out and perhaps some radiographs.

                          You wont get much help from a cow vet who will say the equivalent of "Yup. There's a hitch in his get along fer sure."

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                            We really can't diagnose that specifically on-line. Maybe if you could post some good videos of him.moving on both directions and away from the camera and on a circle. There are lots of people on here with a good eye for these things (better than me ).

                            Even so there might be different opinions.

                            If you are concerned and want a diagnosis you need to get a good lameness specialist out and perhaps some radiographs.

                            You wont get much help from a cow vet who will say the equivalent of "Yup. There's a hitch in his get along fer sure."
                            I think I will take some video and post. We’re I’m from we don’t have any lameness specialists, basically just your old cow vets. At least if someone could pinpoint if it was hind end or front end that would help me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you had swelling on the back of his RH from hock to fetlock, it could be a soft tissue injury. If you aren't able to get a vet out, it isn't going to hurt to rest and cold hose that leg. I'd also poultice and wrap it. I definitely would at least give him a few weeks off with cold therapy. There's a lot of important ligaments and tendons in that area, and that's a large area to be inflamed. It won't hurt anything to do some R&R. Especially if you don't have a equine vet in the area. I would give him bute if you're able as well.

                              Best of luck. Poor guy sounds sore.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by tipzythegreat View Post
                                If you had swelling on the back of his RH from hock to fetlock, it could be a soft tissue injury. If you aren't able to get a vet out, it isn't going to hurt to rest and cold hose that leg. I'd also poultice and wrap it. I definitely would at least give him a few weeks off with cold therapy. There's a lot of important ligaments and tendons in that area, and that's a large area to be inflamed. It won't hurt anything to do some R&R. Especially if you don't have a equine vet in the area. I would give him bute if you're able as well.

                                Best of luck. Poor guy sounds sore.
                                His RH was swelled up about 5 weeks ago now. The swelling went away in 2 days and I gave him a month off.

                                I just rode him for the first time last week. I rode him again yesterday for about 45 minutes of just walking and a bit of trotting. He felt way better-I couldn’t feel his hip dipping like I did last week and my friend said he looked like he was moving way better as well on the hind end. However, he did do a couple of head bobs when he trotted but as the workout progressed the head bin went away. He is really out of shape too.

                                I posted a picture of his RF pastern and hoof-it looks suspiciously like ringbone.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It is very possible you have two separate issues SLS

                                  Usually when the RH is painful, the horse will compensate with the LF. Even if his RF has ringbone, I'd think the RH is most likely a separate issue. Maybe, maybe not... it is really impossible for us to say. Only a vet can tell you

                                  If you aren't able to get a vet, the best you can do is try and work with what you've got. Post videos for people to give you their opinions... and go with your gut. I am sorry I can't be of more help!

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    I took a picture of the bottom of his RF hoof. Something isn’t sitting right with me with the way it looks. I’m hoping someone has an idea of what is going on (if anything).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      It's impossible to give a good critique based on these pictures. I see a foot that's probably in need of a trim, but the overall shape looks pretty good, the toes aren't really long, everything else is easily explained by "time for a trim", but nothing looks chronic.

                                      What doesn't seem right to you?
                                      ______________________________
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Get pictures after he gets a trim. He looks like he needs one.

                                        Comment

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