Stallion Spotlight

C-Quito1

Real Estate Spotlight

01
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Euthanasia

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Euthanasia

    I know there are lots of posts on this topic, but I've read them and am still conflicted. Please help!

    I have an early 20s horse that is not thriving. In addition to a couple of chronic, smaller issues that make him mostly unrideable (but may or may not be uncomfortable), he lost a lot of weight this winter and generally seems somewhat unhappy. In a new herd with younger horses this spring, he has sustained two semi-serious injuries, but both of them are mostly healed now. One was a head wound that resulted in a nosebleed and left a dent. I think some of his unhappiness may be situational so I worry that I might euthanize a horse that could do better if I moved him somewhere he could get more personalized care, better feed, where I could visit him to give him more regular attention/grooming, etc.

    Honestly, things would also be somewhat easier on me financially and logistically if I didn't have to support him any longer, but this is not a deciding factor. I'm very attached to my companion of 15+ years and am not sure what is the right thing to do for him. I want to give him the best life and chance possible. Any advice?

  • #2
    I am sorry you are going through this. It is obvious that you love him and want to do what is best. It is never easy and I understand what a difficult dilemma this is. My thoughts are if he is eating then he is probably okay. When they stop eating or barely eat, that might be a sign he is ready to go.

    Comment


    • #3
      What does your vet say?
      Vets know their patients and can help you.
      Here is more to go by:

      https://aaep.org/euthanasia-guidelines

      We let our not so old, early 20's gelding with a stifle injury go when he was having no interest in his friends.
      He was always very social to other horses, but never to the point of buddy sour.
      He started choosing to rather stay alone and had trouble holding feet up for farrier and getting up when he laid down to rest.
      Our vet and farrier agreed that he was starting to just endure, his quality of life not as good as we would like for him.

      Hope that helps you decide where you are now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Since you offered finances are not an issue I would move him a place where he can get the care you say he needs to thrive better. See how he does, maybe he'll put back on weight and feel perkier again. I guess I'd be curious to know why the weight loss on a non-ridden horse over the winter- lack of groceries for the amount of cold weather? Internal issues?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Seeking Advice View Post
          I think some of his unhappiness may be situational so I worry that I might euthanize a horse that could do better if I moved him somewhere he could get more personalized care, better feed, where I could visit him to give him more regular attention/grooming, etc.
          So..... can you achieve that for him or not? If the truth of the matter is that he can only stay in the place that is making him situationally unhappy, I'd add that to the other factors that suggest euthanasia and feel OK about that decision. And that's because this factor is about his quality of life. I would not keep him in a situation that was "meh" enough to make him look unhappy just so that you could say he wasn't dead. A well-done euthanasia is an OK experience for a horse like that to have.
          The armchair saddler
          Politically Pro-Cat

          Comment


          • #6
            IMO there is never any shame in euthanasia. Let’s be honest, no one is forking out $$ to have a horse properly euth’d and disposed of just for kicks. And horses have zero concept of the future, so it’s not like you are taking something away from them. But pain? They remember pain. I prefer to err on the side of, “better a month too soon than a day too late.”
            It is an incredibly personal decision. And finances are ALWAYS going to be an important consideration - it would be irresponsible at best to disregard the financial aspect of caring for an aging equine (unless you’re a billionaire I guess).
            "Sometimes the fear won't go away... so you just have to do it afraid."

            Trolls be trollin'! -DH

            Comment


            • #7
              No one should fault you for giving your old friend a kind and gentle passing. It is a gracious gift.

              Comment


              • #8
                The number one cause of weight loss is lack of calories. Not enough forage or being bullied. I boarded my horse with a friend and she couldn't understand why her air ferns were fat and healthy while my mare dropped weight. Seniors need extra nutrition and my mare couldn't maintain on a couple flakes plus senior feed. All she needed was unlimited hay plus senior feed, but that wasn't possible with her setup. I moved my mare and she plumped up easily.

                The lower horse in the herd is the most likely to drop weight.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is not a euthanasia of convenience. It would be to give your beloved horse a gentle passing before it got very bad.

                  I have a 24 y/o Clyde/Standardbred cross mare. In the almost three years since I moved her to my new home, she's gone downhill fast. For an air fern to lose weight, despite 24/7 free-choice hay, feed and vet care, you know there's something going on.

                  I've decided that this will be her last summer. Before it gets too cold, I'll make arrangements for her and give her what she deserves: buckets full of every yummy ever and a pain-free crossing. Then my man will have to sedate me, because it'll about do me in.

                  This is the cost of loving a horse.
                  <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 4horses View Post
                    The number one cause of weight loss is lack of calories. Not enough forage or being bullied.
                    Just to add to that, the cause is not enough of the kinds of calories they need. I have one very hard keeper who needs a lot of grain in the winter, and it needs to be a palatable (to her) calorie dense grain because otherwise she won't eat enough of it. She also needs a low stress environment because she gets wound up easily, stays wound up sometimes for days, and then runs and doesn't eat much until she calms down again. And once she loses the weight she won't put it back on again until the grass comes in the spring.

                    It's not always easy to feed a hard keeper, because they need to have access to enough feed, yet they don't want to be separated from their herd to eat it. The ideal situation for my mare was to put her in with an old horse who could also have free choice grain and hay, and then just give them as much as they'd eat.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      To be honest, I think sometimes people jump to euthanasia too quickly. Of course, there are others who allow an animal to languish in pain for far too long but I think there are extremes at both ends of the spectrum.

                      I do not believe animals are lower than humans. Do they may have different emotions, languages and ways of expressing themselves? Sure. But if the animal is happy and has to put up with chronic discomfort or even pain occasionally, I would think they would choose life if they were able to communicate that to us.

                      You say the animal is depressed due to environment and you feel that could be changed. If you can change it and want to put the time, money and effort and the horse is not in severe pain and more along the lines of something chronic (say arthritis) I think it would be fair to keep him alive.

                      All animals (both human and non-human) value their lives. Just because we do not speak their language, doesn't mean they are unable to feel emotions.

                      It wasn't that long ago that most people (and even some today) held the belief that fish do not feel pain but through scientific studies, we now know that they do in fact feel pain.

                      Orcas, they are very self aware and their emotional centers within their brains are bigger than ours which indicates they have bigger emotional ranges than us and because of that, it actually makes them better parents than even humans.

                      No, euthanasia is not bad and is a God send for a lot of animals in pain. But it is taking a life and euthanasia should not be looked at so nonchalantely (SP) as I have seen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        While there is no “right” time in many cases, my philosophy is that it’s far better to euth a month too soon than a minute too late.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hard to say anything based on the info you posted. Lost weight and not thriving in a different herd could describe a lot of perfectly fine horses. If this herd isn't working, can he go to a different one? Or pay a kid to feed him an extra meal at lunch? Or arrange eating his meals in a stall? Or moving to a barn with a more hands-on approach to group management? Or maybe he just has a loose tooth?

                          If you can't meet his needs, let him go, but I'd need to know that it wasn't something basic before feeling comfortable with that decision myself.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Move him or euthanize him neither of those answers is wrong, but IMHO leaving him in the current situation is.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I had a hard keeper.. he was about 20.

                              I moved states and he stayed with my mom. Horse wouldn’t of survived a trailer ride or hard winters.

                              He was super unhappy in a pasture. We had him on as much high quality hay as he wanted, good senior feed.. cool calories etc.

                              My mom would call me about every other month to tell me how ‘miserable’ he was. I told her go ahead and euthanize him. I was okay with it.. do you think she did? Nope.

                              Horse had a horrible, horrible colic episode, and a seizure along with it all. He had to be PTS, what I can only imagine in pain.

                              I feel really, reallt guitly for not visiting him one last time. He was retired for 2 years, basically the time I left.

                              I am alllll for putting animals to sleep, especially ones that aren’t triving.
                              https://www.instagram.com/streamlinesporthorses/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Beyond the herd situation, what have you done to diagnose why he's having trouble keeping weight? Have his teeth been done? Wormed regularly? If this is a new herd to him, perhaps someone introduced a new worm to the mix that he's picked up. Are they all fed together, or are they grained separately? Is he 'dribbling' food or eating well?

                                It could very well be that he's depressed - if this is a new herd of young horses, he is likely the 'odd man out.' Horses are social, and if he's being ostracized, that could be contributing to his issues. Ulcers are another likely thing to look at, especially if he's under new stress.

                                That said, I have had hard keepers in their 20s and it's very expensive and time-consuming to keep them up to snuff. I may have to think about having my 33-year old mare put to sleep later this year (she has horrible teeth and keeping weight on her is starting to be a challenge - hard to think about, when she was always such an air fern). This is not a situation in which anyone would fault you for erring on the side of the horse as he is now. But if you can move him and improve the situation, you could always try that. If he doesn't improve by fall, even with all the other things I talked about, then euthanasia may be the best thing.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I think you have two main options here.

                                  The happiness of an older horse is strongly related to their herd circumstance. Older horses derive great pleasure from being surrounded either timid younger horses that they can take under their wing, or other old friends that they can be companionable with. An older horse that is being bossed around by a group of strong, dominant young horses that are too rough is likely not particularly happy. It's one thing for a young horse that is playing rough to take some bites and kicks in the course of their mischief--that's normal and fine. It's another thing entirely for an arthritic older horse that just wants some peace to have to endure being periodically roughed up by a bunch of thugs.

                                  So the two options: 1) Find your horse a different living situation where he is turned out with more gentle, suitable pasture mates, in which scenario he probably won't care very much that he's a little sore or unthrifty. Or, 2) euthanize, and no need to feel guilty about it. It is a reasonable option and guarantees a peaceful end.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by 4horses View Post
                                    The number one cause of weight loss is lack of calories. Not enough forage or being bullied.
                                    I don't totally agree with this. I have known a few very old horses that no matter how much and how high calorie food they ate they lost weight. One horse was 36 years old, the large pony was 38 almost 39 years old. I think that some horses as they age can no longer absorb the nutrients from their feed as well.
                                    So yes in a sense it is lack of calories because their body is not absorbing the calories rather than not being fed enough calories. For both these horses they both were given a lot of feed but could not/would not eat enough to stay at a good weight.
                                    I also think that like many old people they lose their tastebuds so food isn't as appealing. Therefore it can be hard to get them to eat more feed.
                                    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I 100% agree with soybeanzz. I would try to find more suitable living arrangements for your horse and give him a chance. I am very careful about who I turn my senior guy out with, luckily for me I am able to have him at home, but out of the 4 others I have there's only 1 I'll turn him out with because I don't believe his retirement should include being kicked in the face by stroppy mares.
                                      Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate your advice and support.

                                        I think I've found a new situation for him and am going to take further steps to get him back to himself. If he still doesn't look happy after a summer on green grass with lots of good feed and the right care, we'll revisit this decision then. But for right now, I'm very hopeful he will come around!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X