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What dewormer should you use in the Spring?

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  • EE
    started a topic What dewormer should you use in the Spring?

    What dewormer should you use in the Spring?

    I've heard that you should rotate dewormers, so which one is preferable for use in the Spring (Kentucky) and which one for the Fall?

    Thanks,

    EE


  • stressgirl37
    replied
    Our vet recommends fecal testing and Equimax in the spring, and the Panacure Purge (5 day) in the fall. I'm in central CA. I used to use Ivermectin in the spring.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    I personally probably would never use Quest on a horse with or who had EPM. Yes, it's the same class as ivermectin, but it's also different enough. Nothing scientific to back it up, just the patterns as mentioned. I'd stick with ivermectin since that's the only other option to kill bots. So that means Equimax (I will never ever recommend Zimecterin Gold to any horse) to also get tapeworms, or you do have the option of double dosing pyrantel pamoate (ie Strongid paste) to kill tapeworms too.

    Leave a comment:


  • george
    replied
    Some EPM horses have reacted poorly to Quest and invermectrin. There is enough of a pattern of it to be aware. My EPM horse relapses on Quest. He is usually find on Invermectrin and always fine on Panacur. Some EPM horses are specifically wormed with Quest- it’s not a clear cut case of don’t use it, it’s just something to be aware of. I would look at the history of your individual horse’s reaction to wormers then adjust accordingly.

    Leave a comment:


  • starhorse
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    The problems were both of those - the original plunger locking mechanism kept failing, resulting in overdoses for smaller horses, AND people who hadn't been regularly deworming, or using things with lots of resistance, were suddenly using the big guns on horses who had a high worm load, so there were impaction issues.

    Quest is perfectly safe to use as directed. If your horse has or has had EPM, don't use it (and you might have to be careful with ivermectin too, so...)
    My 25 year old had an EPM episode 3ish years ago. What should she get instead of QuestPlus for spring? Other two who live at home would still get QuestPlus, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • lightningevent
    replied
    I find how climate affects worming schedules to be interesting. I'm so far south that our local recommendation for low and moderate shedders is Ivermectin or Moxidectin in October, and then Moxidectin plus praziquantel in January. For us, the heat of the summer kills worms rather than the cold of winter.

    Unless you're me, and you end up double dosing your low shedder with Ivermectin in June for summer sores.

    Leave a comment:


  • MorganGal13
    replied
    Thanks for the info... it's almost time to deworm here (still getting down into the 30s at night), and I will look into using Quest.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    The problems were both of those - the original plunger locking mechanism kept failing, resulting in overdoses for smaller horses, AND people who hadn't been regularly deworming, or using things with lots of resistance, were suddenly using the big guns on horses who had a high worm load, so there were impaction issues.

    Quest is perfectly safe to use as directed. If your horse has or has had EPM, don't use it (and you might have to be careful with ivermectin too, so...)

    Leave a comment:


  • Simkie
    replied
    There was a problem with the lock mechanism on the plunger when Quest was first released. It would slip, small horses would get overdosed. They fixed that rather quickly and it's not been an issue in years (a decade??)

    As long as your horses aren't tiny, emaciated, or absolutely loaded with parasites, there's really no reason to not use quest or quest plus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cat Tap
    replied
    Originally posted by MorganGal13 View Post
    I've never used Quest or QuestPlus because of reported problems (illness/fatalities) way back when it first came out. What's changed to make it safer?
    I don't think the product has changed. I think the problem was that because it was so effective, if a horse had a large number of parasites, the dead parasites passing through caused a blockage. You also had to be more careful not to overdose.

    Leave a comment:


  • Texarkana
    replied
    Originally posted by MorganGal13 View Post
    I've never used Quest or QuestPlus because of reported problems (illness/fatalities) way back when it first came out. What's changed to make it safer?
    I'm not sure if anything changed per se. But we do have a better idea of what population of horses is at risk: young horses, anything so small that it can be easily overdosed (minis, etc.), horses with low body weight/lack of fat reserves...

    Leave a comment:


  • MorganGal13
    replied
    I've never used Quest or QuestPlus because of reported problems (illness/fatalities) way back when it first came out. What's changed to make it safer?

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by streamline View Post
    I use equimax in the spring. Horses live outside 24/7 on 20+ acres. We have a bot fly problem.

    Instant results when I wormed them.
    Do you have the option of using Quest Plus in the Spring, save the dung beetles? If not, I understand.

    Im tempted to do another dose on my one that always looks like garbage. Last year when he was really mangey my vet had my worm 5 days straight with something.. totallt forgot what. Made a big difference for him.
    That 5 days would have been a Panacur Power Pack (or Safeguard Power Dose, but Panacur more likely). If you are able to use Quest Plus in the Spring, you'd eliminate the need for a PP, and would do it more safely for the horse.

    I live in Montana, so it gets cold etc.
    That only affects the timing of when you do things. Snow cover in the Winter means there's almost a zero % chance of infection during those months (whereas here in NC our changes of infection are lower in the hot dry Summer months).

    Originally posted by BlueDrifter View Post
    Wow, glad I commented -- I was always QuestPlus and Equimax, moved to new barn and the protocol was Panacur twice a year per their vets, so I will ask to make sure.
    Fenbendazole (Panacur) has very high, widespread resistance (across the world, not just North America), so should be assumed to be useless unless and until fecal tests prove it works. And for that, you have to start with a high enough count to get a decent idea of level of reduction And no matter what, fenbendazole doesn't kill bots or tapeworms.

    We don't seem to have botflys -- I have only seen them in photos in my 30 years of horse boarding, and unfortunately, no grass pastures. So without bot/tape maybe it is an okay protocol. On Friday, I will confirm what my vet says in case any SoCal peeps are reading!
    Yes, the desert areas with little to no grazing typically have much less of an issue with many bugs (ie botflies) and tapeworms. The tapeworm mites can survive for a while on hay, just not in larger numbers, so while you don't need to target tapes twice a year in places where grazing is little to none, that hay issue does mean you should treat for them yearly.

    But the fenbendazole is likely to be so ineffective as to be a waste, and using it just prolongs resistance.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlueDrifter
    replied
    Wow, glad I commented -- I was always QuestPlus and Equimax, moved to new barn and the protocol was Panacur twice a year per their vets, so I will ask to make sure. We don't seem to have botflys -- I have only seen them in photos in my 30 years of horse boarding, and unfortunately, no grass pastures. So without bot/tape maybe it is an okay protocol. On Friday, I will confirm what my vet says in case any SoCal peeps are reading!

    Leave a comment:


  • streamline
    replied
    I use equimax in the spring. Horses live outside 24/7 on 20+ acres. We have a bot fly problem.

    Instant results when I wormed them.

    Im tempted to do another dose on my one that always looks like garbage. Last year when he was really mangey my vet had my worm 5 days straight with something.. totallt forgot what. Made a big difference for him.


    I live in Montana, so it gets cold etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    The only variances are timing, as you want to wait until temps are reliably above 45*, and that's going to be different for NY than NC, and then your particular management in terms of what you actually use. If you're in So Cal and horses don't get grass, tapeworms are hardly a problem, so you don't need to treat for them more than once a year really.

    But yes, if you've got pasture, you've got dung beetles in some capacity, so keeping them safer by using moxidectin in the Spring is the way to go.

    Of course there are situations where a horse cannot have moxidectin, so you don't have a choice, unless you have proven that pyrantel pamoate works on your farm (in which case you can double dose it and get tapeworms as well as storngyles), or that fenbendazole works (won't get tapeworms no matter the dose).

    Leave a comment:


  • EE
    replied
    You all are AMAZING! I did QuestPlus (prior to asking in this post) so I wanted to be sure I did the right one. Of the different answers, does it matter WHERE you are? Our KY issues might be completely different from the CA ones. So to satisfy my safety brain ... in KY: QuestPlus in spring is the "right" way to go?

    Thanks!

    EE

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
    Quest Plus in spring and Equimax in the fall is a minimum. Your fecal results throughout the year will tell you if anything more is necessary for your horse.
    Originally posted by Simkie View Post
    Yup, what Laurie said.

    Moxidectin is less toxic to the dung beetles than ivermectin, so we use that in the spring when they're more active.
    ^^^

    Originally posted by BlueDrifter View Post
    In SoCal, it seems vets have changed to using Panacur 5x twice a year. My vet is coming Friday so I can ask, but there is concern of immunity from excess worming. Not a show barn and not in pasture.
    Do you mean a Power Pack (double dose fenbendazole for 5 days in a row)? Assuming so - WHY? It doesn't kill bots. It likely doesn't kill much in the way of strongyles. It doesn't kill tapeworms.

    Fenbendazole (Panacur, Safeguard) has high, widespread resistance from strongyles.

    Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
    My vet said Quest Plus in spring to knock out the encysted strongyles before they erupt from the gut lining. I'm not sure what he recommends for fall, same or different?
    Ivermectin, with or without praziquantel for tapeworms, for the Fall.


    Leave a comment:


  • Simkie
    replied
    Originally posted by BlueDrifter View Post
    In SoCal, it seems vets have changed to using Panacur 5x twice a year. My vet is coming Friday so I can ask, but there is concern of immunity from excess worming. Not a show barn and not in pasture.
    But....you're not hitting tapes or bots with that. Maybe tapes aren't an issue if you're not in pasture, but bots would be? And fenbendazole has a lot of resistance issues, so it's likely you're not taking care of the strongyles, either.

    The AAEP has a great comprehensive deworming guideline. Lemme go get it...

    Ah, here we go

    https://aaep.org/guidelines/parasite-control-guidelines

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    My vet said Quest Plus in spring to knock out the encysted strongyles before they erupt from the gut lining. I'm not sure what he recommends for fall, same or different?

    Leave a comment:

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