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that muscle behind the elbow where the girth goes.....

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  • that muscle behind the elbow where the girth goes.....

    You know the one. Right behind the elbow. Maybe part of Serratus ventrallis or acending pectoralis? Bravo's is BIG and Fat. And he is round enough that the girth must be tight otherwise the saddle shifts (yes, SOME of it is me - but he ALSO is crooked and shifts the saddle to the right with other riders too). And yes the saddle has been fitted to him recently and was custom built for him two years ago.

    I have noticed he is touchy there when grooming. He actually snapped at me the other day as I groomed there - and I explored the extent of the touchiness. No, not like ulcery touchy - very localized to this muscle. I frankly don't know what to do.
    I use a TSF Stretch tek girth with fleece backing. He needs a shaped girth but being Lusitano he is very round barrelled......and as I said above it needs to be tight. I can't use a longer girth because it would go up too far. A shorter girth would have buckles right at the elbow.

    Any suggestions welcome!

  • #2
    Bilaterally fat? Is it warm?
    What exactly is your question?
    Have you had a vet look at it?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Not that sort of thing. It's a girthing issue.

      Comment


      • #4
        Your horse is telling you he's in pain. That is why he bit you when you groomed the area you reference.
        That is the core problem of 'girthing issues'.

        Sounds like you've got it all covered. Best of luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Change your girth to something without stretch. It actually adds instability to your saddle plus it is really easy to over tighten.
          Jacobson's Saddlery, LLC
          www.thesaddlefits.com
          Society of Master Saddlers Qualified Fitter

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lorilu View Post
            You know the one. Right behind the elbow. Maybe part of Serratus ventrallis or acending pectoralis? Bravo's is BIG and Fat.
            That shouldn't be so big and fat, so if it is, I'd be concerned he's obese, or is insulin resistant has fatty deposits or edema. So that's one thing to check into.

            And he is round enough that the girth must be tight otherwise the saddle shifts (yes, SOME of it is me - but he ALSO is crooked and shifts the saddle to the right with other riders too). And yes the saddle has been fitted to him recently and was custom built for him two years ago.
            I would have it re-fitted. 2 years is a long time for a lot of horses who may be changing weight, adding or losing fitness/muscle, etc. It also sounds like you're tightening the girth too much - the issues of shifting need to be addressed. If it's uneven muscling, then a shim on the lighter/lower side may be necessary. The saddle fitter should and better be able to help you work on that

            I have noticed he is touchy there when grooming. He actually snapped at me the other day as I groomed there - and I explored the extent of the touchiness. No, not like ulcery touchy - very localized to this muscle. I frankly don't know what to do.
            I use a TSF Stretch tek girth with fleece backing. He needs a shaped girth but being Lusitano he is very round barrelled......and as I said above it needs to be tight. I can't use a longer girth because it would go up too far. A shorter girth would have buckles right at the elbow.

            Any suggestions welcome!
            Being a Lusitano he's prone to being IR, so I would look into that for sure. Cranking down on a girth to keep a saddle from slipping isn't the action to take - this is a saddle fit issue, not a girth issue.

            Another possibility (in addition to the above, girths should never be cranked down) is he's got a rib out of place, either incidental to the girth issue, or because of how tight it's been.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #7
              My horse sometimes gets very tight in that muscle. For him it is ad simple as a massage to release it, but it could definitely be secondary to so many things including saddle fit, pain somewhere and need a chiro adjustment

              Comment


              • #8
                One of the good things about that girth is that you shouldn't have to crank it as tight. Even on a round horse, that much saddle shifting probably means something doesn't fit quite right. It might be your billet configuration or the front panel.

                My horse is sort of larger there as well and has a large shoulder overall. If a saddle is too narrow for him in the shoulder, it will tip off to the left. Every time.

                Assuming with a Lusitano and a Stretch tek girth you are riding dressage. I'd look at your billets and front panel fit not just the top of the saddle.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why don't you post pictures? That could help.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    I think whoever said he might have a rib out is correct and I have already called Chiro. Rode today with the smooth leather liner for the forth and was careful
                    about tightening and pulling leg ofrward( that old gorthing trick). He is not IR (been checked). Saddle was fitted about three months ago. Saddle was selected for him by saddle expert and made for him. And DUH I know he snapped b/c he is in pain.
                    Leave it to CoTH to treat everyone like a fool.
                    I have a call in to the Chiro.
                    Thanks all.

                    Comment


                    • #11


                      From your OP:
                      "I frankly don't know what to do"
                      and then
                      "Any suggestions welcome".

                      Nobody treated you like a fool. Your question was ambiguous and we were guessing at which direction you needed advice, since you seemed more focused on changing tack than possible explanations for his physical discomfort.

                      Glad he's seeing a Chiro and you're on your road to resolution.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I believe I know which muscle you are referring to. I had a very similar issue.

                        I found that my horse preferred it if I lightly stretched the area. I didn't lift his leg, but I took a hand and just slightly lifted the skin "up" towards the top of his body, but obviously following the curve of his barrel. He didn't like it when I massaged it, but would relax after a minute or two. So I would "pull/stretch" the muscle from his elbows to a little past where the girth went. I would do this on both sides. I also found he had tight chest muscles and stretching those helped too.

                        My guy had what looked like a "vein" popping out. My massage therapist called this the fly twitching muscle and has seen several horses who were girthy because of the muscle being tight.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I got a new mare a year ago and had fitter out to fit her with a new saddle. The saddle fit my horse well. After nearly 8 months, the saddle began shifting so saddle fitter made a few adjustments. That worked well for a few months and we began having the problem again but worse, regardless how tight the girth was ( which horse objected to ). Had fitter out again and concluded that since that saddle was originally fit to her, my mare, who is in heavy dresssge training, had gained a lot of muscle over her topline and the shape (not width) was no longer working for her. So, tried several saddles til we found another model that fit her new body. So sometimes it is not the girth that is the problem but the tree or saddle style. Worth considering.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, even saddle experts are human. We can make the best decisions we can with the knowledge we have. Now you have additional knowledge of the horse being sore in this particular area. And also that your saddle won't stay centered without a very tight girth. Might call for an adjustment in the equipment. The decision made the first time around is not infallible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You may also consider that he may be sore somewhere else.
                              That could be making the saddle slip:

                              https://thehorse.com/118331/saddle-s...limb-lameness/

                              The saddle slipping results in overtight girth.
                              That causes the sore spot on his round barrel.

                              Just other to check, while you are checking.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I have a similar issue with one of my horses, I do exactly what mydogs did,worked for my horse who is also a bit on the round side .
                                On her I think the comfort girth made the problem worse,I now just use a basic fleece girth,she is much happier with this girth.
                                These things can be hard to figure out and yes some posters love to treat anyone asking for advice, like an idiot!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It is definitely "a thing".

                                  I let a friend ride my horse over jumps using her saddle. It was a jump/event saddle with short billets, and since I don't know what kind of girth the OP uses, cannot compare.

                                  I was girthing my mare up since I know she has tender armpits so prefer to take care of her myself - she just exploded, ran twice around the ring bucking and crow hopping. I have had this horse since birth so know her inside out - she is an angel. When she came to a halt, we changed saddles to mine (hers) with a long girth - no more trouble...ever.

                                  My friend said she had had rare, similar instances with that saddle in the past.
                                  Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Thanks all. CHiro was out today. He had real issues - all probably from the hard stop on the trailer ride home. Chiro and acupuncture addressed it all. I'll see tomorrow how effective it was.
                                    THe girth issue predates the trailer incident - so I'll be trying the stretching suggested above, and also change the liner to the smooth leather one, because it is thinner.

                                    And about the saddle slipping - it seems to get so much better after he has a PEMF session, and I find that really interesting......

                                    I'll report back tomorrow

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Sansena View Post


                                      From your OP:
                                      "I frankly don't know what to do"
                                      and then
                                      "Any suggestions welcome".

                                      Nobody treated you like a fool. Your question was ambiguous and we were guessing at which direction you needed advice, since you seemed more focused on changing tack than possible explanations for his physical discomfort.

                                      Glad he's seeing a Chiro and you're on your road to resolution.
                                      It was the comment that he snapped at me because he was in pain that elicited this response.
                                      Thanks all.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Sansena View Post
                                        Bilaterally fat? Is it warm?
                                        What exactly is your question?
                                        Have you had a vet look at it?
                                        Then your response..

                                        "Not that sort of thing. It's a girthing issue."

                                        Which is why I mentioned pain. Which you dismissed out of hand. After in your OP saying you "frankly don't know what to do" and then "Any suggestions welcome".

                                        I have been the victim of folks twisting my words here and misinterpreting my meaning.
                                        I also understand being embarrassed because people jump to conclusions.
                                        It's also helpful to remember that not everyone is familiar with yours or your personal horse's history or posting history.
                                        i.e.: A trailer incident....

                                        Have a good day and I sincerely hope your horse is better and you've gotten what you need to from this thread.

                                        Comment

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