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Stupid question - how to load 60cc syringe?

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  • Stupid question - how to load 60cc syringe?

    I had a hilariously frustrating experience last night trying to load a 60cc syringe with my mare's meds.

    She is on 25 pills of prednisolone daily. As of late, she has become lackluster in eating them out of her grain, so I wanted to load a syringe just in case.

    I used applesauce as the liquid portion of the concoction. Note that 25 pills produces quite a bit of powder. Lord almighty was I on the struggle bus trying to get this thing loaded...

    Questions:

    -->Do I premix it in a small container, or try to mix it in the syringe itself?
    -->If premix: Am I supposed to use a small spoon to get it in the syringe?
    -->If yes: How do you get the last bit off the spoon and out of the container?
    -->There were some vapor lock issues when putting the plunger back in that caused me to want to tear my hair out, not all the mix would jiggle back off the tip to allow for a clean push - I'm guessing I was missing something? The mix was not too soft nor too thick - would come out of the tip well but wasn't runny.

    Finally --> is this just supposed to be a ridiculous endeavor that makes people hate delivering meds? Is there a better tool for med delivery?

    I've loaded syringes before, but never had this level of problems - likely because the amount of powder at that time was far less.

    Help!!!!

  • #2
    Yes, its a PITA and at some point you'll decorate the walls and ceiling of your prep area. Try a liquid measuring cup and a popsicle stick.

    Comment


    • #3
      I always mix in the syringe itself. (I use red Gatorade) I crush the pills and use a folded piece of paper to slide them into the syringe, keeping a finger over the tip, then add the gatorade, very carefully insert the plunger just til it's in, leaving as much airspace as possible while keeping it secure. Then, shake it, point it up so the air rises to the tip, and move finger to release the air before pushing the plunger in until the mixture reaches the tip. This has proven to be the easiest and least messy way for me. I've used applesauce as well, in which case, I dissolved the pills in just enough hot water to do the trick, poured that in and then added the sauce.

      Comment


      • #4
        I do something similar to HenryisBlaisin ---only the night before. Put a bit of liquid (usually water) into the syringe --add pills, put in plunger (up end syringe to allow air to leave) --cap --set carefully cap end up, and allow over night for the pills to dissolve. Then I give a violent shake the next day and squirt into horse's mouth while holding his head up (generally I have to stand on a step ladder for the OTTBS not so much for the QHs--OR mix liquid pill/mix into grain with a liberal amount of molasses. If you use an "extruded" feed, you can do the same thing mixing the pellets into the pills, adding water and waiting for everything to soften over night. Still, I find a bit of molasses makes the horse lick the dish.

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        • #5
          Why would you put applesauce in a syringe? If you are going to dose the horse, it doesn't matter what it tastes like.
          "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

          Comment


          • #6
            I have to give my horse Sucralfate. I use a smaller syringe, but the vet had me cut the end off, get off sharp edges with a fingernail file. Pull the plunger back, load pills into the syringe. Holding the syringe upright, add your liquid. Set the syringe on it's end, (I usually rest it up against something) and wait for pills to dissolve. I end up with more of a paste, but it works great. 60cc syringes may be a bit too big for this, but thought I'd share.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post
              Why would you put applesauce in a syringe? If you are going to dose the horse, it doesn't matter what it tastes like.
              Because I want it to be thick, and not taste like absolute garbage so she learns to hate being dosed, that's why. This is not a one time dosing - this will be every day for the next few months.

              What would you suggest? That's what this thread is about.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post

                Because I want it to be thick, and not taste like absolute garbage so she learns to hate being dosed, that's why. This is not a one time dosing - this will be every day for the next few months.

                What would you suggest? That's what this thread is about.
                I would suggest teaching your horse to stand quiet to be dosed, and that way you can squirt it to the back of the mouth where the horse will swallow it. Then for the rest of her life, she will be easy to worm, dose, etc. If she likes peppermints, you can add a bit of some liquid breathing supplement to your mixture.
                "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree with Palm Beach, and I just use water. My mare won't eat if there's ANYTHING in her feed, so any meds or supplements she needs I have to dose her.
                  If you reeeeeally think it needs to taste better, try apple juice instead of sauce.
                  "The best of any breed is the thoroughbred horse..." - GHM

                  http://www.mmeqcenter.com/sale.html

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                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    She stands well to be dosed now (has gotten full rounds of omeprazole), but so did my old man QH up until about day 60 of 2x daily of SMZs. At that point, he had had enough and would not allow me to give it to him that way anymore. Trying to avoid that happening again.

                    Peppermint extract is a good idea.

                    Even with just water, this powder is enough that most of the 60ccs will have to be occupied to make it flow-able. Does anyone split it into two syringes to make the plunger easier to depress?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why make something that tastes utterly nasty, taste at least decent? Why *wouldn't* you? Do *you* want something awful shoved into your mouth every day for weeks and months? I doubt it.

                      60cc of watery filler is a lot of room for dribbling meds out of the mouth. There's a reason dewormers are paste and not liquid. Ever tried squirting 40cc+ of liquid fenbendazole into a horse's mouth? No matter how nicely they stand, it dribbles out. That's why I quickly switched to putting that in their breakfast. And yes, my horses can be dewormed anywhere, without a halter, just my hand on their nose for stability, and I guarantee that trying to get 60cc of liquid anything is going to result in some loss, and that's not acceptable. So it's not simply about training the horse to stand quietly.

                      endlessclimb I would get things dissolved in a small cup, put the plunger all the way in the syringe, and then draw the mixture up. That's so much easier than trying to get it all in the syringe from the end, and get the plunger in without squirting some of the mix out. Just remember to use little enough liquid that you don't end up with too much for the syringe, or you'll have to draw up 2 syringes' worth (not necessarily a big deal).

                      Any residue left in the cup could then be rinsed with water and added to the feed, or just mixed with a handful of something yummy (alfalfa pellets tends to work well) if you're dosing at an off-meal time. That has worked well for me. I dilute blackstrap molasses at least 1:1 with water, usually 2:1, because that stuff is really thick, and it's nice to "liquify" it for easier mixing, and even at 2-3:1, the taste is still pretty strong.
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
                        She stands well to be dosed now (has gotten full rounds of omeprazole), but so did my old man QH up until about day 60 of 2x daily of SMZs. At that point, he had had enough and would not allow me to give it to him that way anymore. Trying to avoid that happening again.

                        Peppermint extract is a good idea.

                        Even with just water, this powder is enough that most of the 60ccs will have to be occupied to make it flow-able. Does anyone split it into two syringes to make the plunger easier to depress?
                        If you are worried about her becoming difficult I wouldn’t divide it into two doses. Your best bet is to use a liquid rather than something that’s thick like applesauce.

                        With horses that that do not totally refuse to eat their grain I dissolve the pills and mix liberally with molasses, applesauce or something like that. It helps to soak the grain as well.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          endlessclimb I am in the Spoonful of Sugar Camp as well.
                          Had one on SMZs for 2wks & the sulfa component makes it very bitter - 1 drop escaping onto the tongue & next dose you have a fight on your hands.
                          Me: 5'5" He: 17H+
                          I got better results mixing something sweet - pancake syrup, molasses - into the powder/water slurry.

                          Also: horses have a swallow reflex if you tap the soft palate with the tip of the syringe, on your way out, after pushing out the med.
                          Works every time.
                          *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                          Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                          Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                          Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by endlessclimb View Post
                            She stands well to be dosed now (has gotten full rounds of omeprazole), but so did my old man QH up until about day 60 of 2x daily of SMZs. At that point, he had had enough and would not allow me to give it to him that way anymore. Trying to avoid that happening again.
                            I don't blame them either.
                            Even with just water, this powder is enough that most of the 60ccs will have to be occupied to make it flow-able. Does anyone split it into two syringes to make the plunger easier to depress?
                            ah, I gotcha. So yeah, you might have to do 2 syringes to get it all. Does he like applesauce? If he does, then to help things along, you can do the first half dose, a syringe of applesauce, and then the 2nd half dose. But sometimes the issue is the matter of sticking a syringe in their face, not necessarily the taste, so 3 tubes isn't necessarily better than 2 LOL But if you find something that he will kill for, then having that between the 2 medicine doses may really help (and even 4th tube after )
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              More details on my front: 25 pills, ground finely, with two crushed peppermints. This is my attempt at getting her to eat it solid.

                              She won't eat it out of a half scoop (3qt, don't know weight sorry) of Race Ready sweet feed. This feed was bought specifically for delivering the meds - typically she doesn't get any "sweetened" grain.

                              She's beginning to balk at eating it out of the half scoop of race ready, and a half scoop of beet pulp soaked. Sometimes she cleans up. Sometimes she won't touch it. Mix is the same every time. Bucket is always cleaned.

                              She typically gets half a scoop of beet pulp, half a scoop of alfalfa pellets soaked at night after a ride, which historically she always cleaned up. The sweet feed was supposed to spice it up a little.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                I don't blame them either.


                                ah, I gotcha. So yeah, you might have to do 2 syringes to get it all. Does he like applesauce? If he does, then to help things along, you can do the first half dose, a syringe of applesauce, and then the 2nd half dose. But sometimes the issue is the matter of sticking a syringe in their face, not necessarily the taste, so 3 tubes isn't necessarily better than 2 LOL But if you find something that he will kill for, then having that between the 2 medicine doses may really help (and even 4th tube after )
                                That's kind of how I feel - it's miserable for them, happening every day. They're intelligent and know what's coming. My old man is BROKE broke. To insinuate he needs more training instead of me being respectful of his wishes is pretty sad. He's not a machine. He's telling me he doesn't want to be dosed anymore, after 60 days x 2x a day = 120 doses. It's almost like saying you can train them to stand still while you remove their leg with a knife - I mean, anything can be trained, right?

                                I'll try the molasses to make it thick trick, and keep messing around with the concoction. I like your idea of drawing it up, though it will probably have to be a little more watery than I'd like to get it to go up nicely. I do worry about dribble.

                                I honestly figured there was an easy way that I had missed in my horsemanship education - I guess there isn't "one way" to skin this cat haha.


                                Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Just went through a similar exercise with one of my mares. For us, the best method was:

                                  -a drenching gun rather than a syringe
                                  -cinnamon sugar
                                  -water
                                  -crushed pills

                                  I mix in a small glass jar, then draw up into the drenching gun.

                                  Maresy was actually opening her mouth to accept the drenching gun after the third or fourth time with the cinnamon sugar mix.

                                  I like drenching guns better that the large syringes because I have small hands and the wings on the drenching gun make it easier for me to handle. Plus, the long tip on the drenching gun lets me get the mixture farther back in her mouth, so less spitting out.

                                  You can find drenching guns / syringes in all sorts of sizes. I have three: 20cc, 50cc, and 60cc.

                                  https://www.valleyvet.com/c/livestoc...drenching.html

                                  *star*
                                  Last edited by ShotenStar; Jan. 7, 2019, 11:17 AM.
                                  "Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit."
                                  - Desiderata, (c) Max Ehrman, 1926

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Uckele makes some flavorings for stuff like this that might be worth investigating--maybe he can be talked into eating the meds on his own again? Easiest for everyone!

                                    Fenugreek is also often helpful as an enticer, and can be found cheaply at ethnic grocery stores or Amazon.

                                    I hope it gets easier, endless! Having to dose them forever really sucks...a whole lot of us here feel your pain!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      No advice but I totally get why you’re trying to make it more pleasant for your horse! My mare recently needed 7 days if twice daily meds... and for the next 3 weeks she would turn her head away from me and wouldn’t eat treats from my hand.... she’s broke and was never rude about the meds, but I don’t blame her for not liking it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        oh I like the idea of a drenching gun - that would make the mechanics of squirting it easier for sure. I also never thought of a cinnamon sugar mix! Good idea too on something like fenugreek. Horsetech has (used to? I think they still do?) flavorings as well - fenugreek, banana (maybe you can mash a banana with half the meds and see if he'll eat that?), and apple I think, and they are happy to send samples.
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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