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Back to soy problems - search function not working

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  • Back to soy problems - search function not working

    I tried searching for Daydream Believer's soy thread and no matter what I type in, it says "sorry no matches."

    Can you guys please tell me what issues you have seen with the phytoestrogens in soy and flax, specifically with your MARES. Or can you point me to that thread?

    Thank you.

  • #2
    My mare absolutely will not stand tied, and gets very spooky, twitchy, and hypersensitive. She's sensitive by nature, but on soy she's almost dangerous to handle because she's jumping out of her skin.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Well that's how my gelding was on Wellsolve, but the mare is having an entirely different issue. The vet is coming tomorrow and I'll post more then after I know more. Right now it's all very bizarre.

      Comment


      • #4
        False pregnancy (massive lactation), huge gain in weight (on 3/4 lb of RB once daily...not even the recommended 1lb), flat soles, skin itchies. When I removed them from soy, the mare that is the most sensitive began losing weight in bizarre patches. She looked lumpy ALL OVER. It was like pockets of water weight. Very bizarre. After about 2 weeks soy free, she was not lumpy anymore and looked normal and not bloated and pregnant. That was just the mares. I've got a stallion and a gelding that are soy sensitive as well. They react by breaking out in scratches, and other strange skin ailments. And flat soles as well on them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Here's one of the DDB threads

          http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...oy+sensitivity

          Comment


          • #6
            soy is too short a term to search on, instead, search on soy* the asterisk will serve as a wildcard and make the search actually work (same for EPM*, for example).

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh God...that old thread resurrected again. Lodi is still going strong BTW and is the mother of two foals this year...hers and an orphan filly she adopted....JD and Sweetie.

              http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/P7170054.jpg

              No soy for my horses now at all...I've given up trying. I run into the occasional other horse in my trimming practice with soy related issues also. Had a funny conversation with a new client a few weeks ago when she asked me what I fed. I told her. She mentioned that she put her horses (Foxtrotters) on a "grass balancer" product (same one I had trouble with) and in very short order all were very fat and looked "bloated." She took them off, and back to normal in a week or so. I then told her that I'd had similar problems and that I suspected the soy meal content to be the culprit. I am quite certain we aren't all imagining it...so there is something going on.

              Since that mess in 2008, I experimented with my older stallion with poor teeth on a Senior feed with soy hulls and he got fat and cresty very quickly on a fairly small amount of it...so back to my own mix of beet pulp, alfalfa pellets and rice bran and his condition is excellent...not cresty nor fat and looks great.

              Symptoms I had were IR symptoms, laminitis, udders swelling even in a suckling filly, bloated appearance, extreme reactive behavior on same suckling filly, and feet went to crap. White line separation in particular. All those symptoms resolved when the feed was withdrawn.

              Comment


              • #8
                I went soy free with my horses because one of them had bulging feet if that makes any sense. I freaked out and took them off of grain and then decided to try soy free. The bulges are gone now. Both look great although I wish the one with the feet would gain a little more weight. My other mare who was always a bit crazy has calmed down some as well.
                Missouri Fox Trotters-To ride one is to own one

                Standardbreds, so much more then a harness racing horse.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Ughhh groan. I give up. The vet is coming tomorrow. Thankfully it's not a hoof/laminitis issue, but possible false pregnancy. A week ago vet was absolutely certain horse was bred based on physical appearance and udder beginning to develop, tail head softening, the whole deal. Mare certainly wasn't bred on purpose but I assumed something happened through the fence unbeknownst to all of us. Did an estrone sulphate test - it came back at 7.2. Should be well over 300 to indicate pregnancy given she would obviously be past 110 days along. Vet wasn't even going to DO any tests because the physical appearance was such a positive sign. Told me to prepare for baby. Then - test comes back negative. Unbelievable. Tomorrow we're doing a palpation and ultrasound to be sure. If that is indeed negative, then this horse is one more to add to the list. She gets Ultium and flax, apparently both would be culprit. I'll post more when I know more.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Mare certainly wasn't bred on purpose but I assumed something happened through the fence unbeknownst to all of us
                    WOW. No one could have predicted that!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is this the same horse that over in young horse land on the dressage board, is suitably managed and sane and 100% perfect in ev-er-y way? Except for maybe oopsy also being maybe in the fam-ily-way, too.

                      ya can't make this stuff up, folks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My mares that are soy sensitive are not flax sensitive FWIW.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          2 of mine blood tested as soy sensitive. The one that caused me to test was laminitic. 15 months old and laminitic.
                          My other 2 are easy keepers so all 4 are on uckele grass pellets, whole flax, mccauleys biotine and alfalfa pellets.
                          "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

                          "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            wow what an interesting thread.. Senn, my 4 year old tb mare has the strangest feet ever. The vet and various farriers out have all had different opinions on WHY she has bizarre feet. She looks like she has been laminitic, but to my knowledge has never foundered (on of these days I will get pics taken)

                            I have fed her soy on and off.... hmmmmmmmm

                            (flat feet, thin soles, strange shaped feets..)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Soy does appear to mess with estrogen levels from what I have read (but no expert) so possibly someone not familiar with that might misread the symptoms.

                              Thank gawd your mare is not preggo by her half sib though, OP!! Line breeding is not something you want to do by accident.

                              IOW fenceline breeding is not line breeding.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Stacie View Post
                                2 of mine blood tested as soy sensitive. The one that caused me to test was laminitic. 15 months old and laminitic.
                                My other 2 are easy keepers so all 4 are on uckele grass pellets, whole flax, mccauleys biotine and alfalfa pellets.
                                I am glad there has been no laminitis though she has grown out a fairly hefty growth ring which has not happened before. She also developed some flare and a bit of white line separation in the quarters - though we've had record rainfalls which has been very hard on hooves. Never had any lameness though. She's been off the flax and Ultium for a few days and the bit of udder development that was there seems to have gone away. The vet is coming out this afternoon just to be sure something else isn't going on but it's looking like soy may be a problem for her. The other mare and the filly are fine. The one gelding went nutty on Wellsolve but since taking him off that, he's fine too.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I would not think that "soy sensitive" by blood testing (which to me suggests allergy) would be even remotely correlated with the type of thing being discussed here, namely an inappropriate hormonal action of soy on presumably susceptible animals.
                                  Click here before you buy.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                    I would not think that "soy sensitive" by blood testing (which to me suggests allergy) would be even remotely correlated with the type of thing being discussed here, namely an inappropriate hormonal action of soy on presumably susceptible animals.
                                    You're right.
                                    The two easy keepers who do not have soy sensitivity did look less "swollen" when we took them off soy. They had that water retention weight thing going. Another horse I had in the past, also looked "squishy" on soy. We would notice a change in just a few days.
                                    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

                                    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by katarine View Post
                                      soy is too short a term to search on, instead, search on soy* the asterisk will serve as a wildcard and make the search actually work (same for EPM*, for example).
                                      Aha! I've been wondering how to do that for years! Thanks.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        So for those of you going soy free.. what do you feed?

                                        I am going to try Senn soy free, but I just called my feed mill and they said they wouldn't suggest any feed with a pellet as soy is often used, and even if your pellet doesn't have it as an ingredient (which sounded rare) there could still be some there if the pellets were made after a batch with soy.

                                        Comment

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