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Hemp Oil or CBD?

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  • arktos19
    started a topic Hemp Oil or CBD?

    Hemp Oil or CBD?

    Has anyone tried hemp oil/pellets or CBD for their horses? I am considering trying it on one of my OTTBs for general wellness and anti-inflammatory purposes, along with hopefully alleviating some of his post-track life anxiety. Google provides lots of information for smaller animals, but only a few resources for equines. I realize that hemp oil and CBD are not equivalent but would like to hear from anyone who has tried it. Thanks!

  • Ghazzu
    replied
    I do believe there's something to be said for several thousand years' worth of anecdotal evidence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janet Conway
    replied
    This is an interesting thread and I appreciate everyone's opinions. I agree to not believe anything from a website marketing and/or selling these products. But, there are a ton of credible sources on the internet and I encourage everyone to educate themselves on the science.

    The patent office has been issuing cannabis patents since 1942, the US government holds a patent on cannabis for medical use, and there are literally thousands of other published patents and applications. These files contain a wealth of scientifically validated research. In addition, there are thousands of scientifically peer-accepted published research articles and clinical trials, including those published on US gov't Nat'l Institute of Health site, with that number growing exponentially. There's even a few fda approved drugs, with many more applications being filed now that hemp has been legalized federally.

    It's like climate change. There are those that do not fully believe the predictions of our current trajectory, but the science is there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Palm Beach
    replied
    There are plenty of tried and true remedies to inflammation without having jump on an expensive snake oil bandwagon. The product has not been studies wrt side effects, long term effects, etc. But go ahead and give it to yourself, your pets, etc. Nor are any of the providers regulated to make sure the product is pure, has no harmful ingredients, etc. The placebo effect is well documented, as is Darwinism.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    I don't use it, I never suggested you or anyone should use it. I know quite a few people now who have gotten at least some relief with CBD from things like fibromyalgia, some AI issues, some major insomnia, anxiety, and a handful of other things, several of which have a known inflammatory component. I doubt all of those are a placebo effect. So clearly it does something for some people and for many, it's a last resort.

    You couldn't believe there is invisible inflammation in the body. There is - long-studied, and becoming more well-studied in horses. Now you know. It doesn't bother me at all if you think it's worthless

    Leave a comment:


  • Palm Beach
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post

    It's not hard to find any number of studies looking at low grade chronic inflammation issues. Work hard? You've got some inflammation going on somewhere. Got an AI issue? I betcha there's some inflammation somewhere. Allergies? Inflammation. Did you know just being obese can cause systemic inflammation? I have no idea why this seems such a shock to you.

    Why do you think MSM helps some horses? It's a proven anti-inflammatory, but still not something you'd go "oh look, fat leg, bypass the bute just give him MSM". It's not for that kind of inflammation. But it helps some horses just the same. How do you know? How do you know anything that's not obvious? You start digging, make some reasonable guesses, and try something. If you don't trust cbd or hemp, then by all means use whatever it is you do trust.
    There are many solutions, some of which are free or pretty cheap, to all of the above. Why you would use a little understood and untested product and expensive to boot is beyond me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghazzu
    replied
    Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

    I think that's the point . These things get advertised with verbiage about toxins that makes no sense biologically.
    The fact that merchants flog some product or other and make ridiculous claims for it does not necessarily mean that the product has no effects at all, or is not efficacious for some conditions. vitamin C is a good example.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post

    Which toxins are you referring to?....metabolic toxins, ROS, heavy metal toxins, environmental toxins?
    I think that's the point . These things get advertised with verbiage about toxins that makes no sense biologically.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kemosabe
    replied
    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

    What is inflamed and how do you know? Sounds like the infamous toxins that people are trying to flush out.
    Which toxins are you referring to?....metabolic toxins, ROS, heavy metal toxins, environmental toxins?

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

    What is inflamed and how do you know? Sounds like the infamous toxins that people are trying to flush out.
    It's not hard to find any number of studies looking at low grade chronic inflammation issues. Work hard? You've got some inflammation going on somewhere. Got an AI issue? I betcha there's some inflammation somewhere. Allergies? Inflammation. Did you know just being obese can cause systemic inflammation? I have no idea why this seems such a shock to you.

    Why do you think MSM helps some horses? It's a proven anti-inflammatory, but still not something you'd go "oh look, fat leg, bypass the bute just give him MSM". It's not for that kind of inflammation. But it helps some horses just the same. How do you know? How do you know anything that's not obvious? You start digging, make some reasonable guesses, and try something. If you don't trust cbd or hemp, then by all means use whatever it is you do trust.

    Leave a comment:


  • Palm Beach
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    Expecting gross evidence of acute inflammation, and ignoring the more subtle signs of chronic, low-grade inflammation, is missing an enormous piece of a puzzle.
    What is inflamed and how do you know? Sounds like the infamous toxins that people are trying to flush out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post

    It is currently legal across the board, provided a D&M report is filed.
    Well then I don't have an opinion about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • J-Lu
    replied
    Originally posted by sk_pacer View Post

    thing about cocaine and horses is there cannot be enough administered to do good/harm by the methods used; even a wet tongue tie can only hold a very small dose which was just enough to give a bad test. You don't shoot a horse up, nor can you induce it to snort the stuff like a human will do, so all it really produced was bad tests and the horses didn't do any better or worse than before; there are other, more insidious drugs that do not require a huge dose (think a horse size line and it is pretty huge). As to the weed, it was often used on heavey horses along with an old time remedy called Asthmador and it did clear the lungs and ease the breathing
    Wow. Thanks so much for your insight!

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Expecting gross evidence of acute inflammation, and ignoring the more subtle signs of chronic, low-grade inflammation, is missing an enormous piece of a puzzle.

    Leave a comment:


  • Palm Beach
    replied
    Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post

    Actually we know that one of the constituents of hemp SEED oil is GLA, a prostaglandin regulator, can be used by the body to lower PGE2 levels and raise PGE1 levels, thus reducing inflammation. This is particularly beneficial for horses on misoprositol for hind gut ulcers. Misoprositol is a synthetic prostaglandin. As the dosage of Misoprositol is reduced, hemp seed oil can help regulate inflammatory conditions in the GI tract.

    Would I use hemp seed oil on a horse with a swollen leg? No.
    Pulling threads of truth together does not prove cause and effect. Show some research that supports spending $$ on hemp oil is smart wrt reducing “inflammation,” which is another one of those internet hysteria buzzwords. What exactly is inflamed, how do you know it’s inflamed, and how are you measuring the reduction of inflammation? Then maybe I’ll open my wallet if something comes along that needs to be anti inflamed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghazzu
    replied
    Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

    I thought it was illegal for geldings? Anything intended to alter performance is illegal?
    It is currently legal across the board, provided a D&M report is filed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Janet Conway
    replied
    It seems there may be some confusion between hemp, which was legalized federally in Farm Bill, and marijuana. While they are both strains of cannabis, I compare it to broccoli vs brussel spouts (both technically mustard plants). There is also a debate on whether cbd is the newest form of snake oil, whether it gets you "high" like thc, and whether there is scientific evidence to support conclusions on these issues. Here is an article that may help educate those that are interested, called, "Cannabinoid Delivery Systems for Pain and Inflammation Treatment" published on the US govt's NIH site: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6222489/.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    The type of mood altering effect from THC, the psychoactive "high", isn't going to happen in properly made CBD oil. THC content has to be extremely low.

    But there are other mechanisms of "mood altering", depending on why the mood exists. Moodiness due to chronic low-grade inflammation or pain, or some mood disorders (depression, anxiety), or some auto-immune issues, might be helped due to the actions of the components of CBD.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pippigirl
    replied
    I seem to recall from what I've read (could be wrong since I was looking into this back in January), since the THC content is very low in CBD oil derived from hemp you won't usually see a lot of mood altering?The other benefits (such as pain and anti inflammation, help with appetite etc) are present.

    Leave a comment:


  • Samantha37
    replied
    Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

    See, if you are planning to use it for a "neurotic" horse, you must believe it has some mood altering ability.

    An example of an NSAID that doesn't seem to really alter moods would be Advil or Bute. You would never take Advil for your own anxiety or Bute a horse that was anxious but had no pain.

    I think it's fine if CBD works in part by being mood altering. But if that's the case, then I wish people were upfront about this and not pretending that it only works on pain receptors. I get that this is a holdover from trying to prove that it is "medicinal" and not "recreational," a distinction that people felt they needed to make during the period that "medical" cannabis was OK but "recreational" illegal (still the case in many States).

    But I want to know what things actually *do* before I take them, or use them on an animal. And I distrust the current discussions about CBD because I think there is a vested interest in people not being quite honest, and mystifying it's actions.
    I'll say it again - I don't notice any mood altering in myself. I'm not hiding anything by what I feel it does for me. I'm also interested in hemp anti inflammatory products for my other OTTB.

    This is like getting into an argument about essential oils and whether they help with anxiety, etc. You could have this same discussion regarding almost all natural products.

    Leave a comment:

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