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Hemp Oil or CBD?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by horsegirl200 View Post
    Does anyone know how CBD/Hemp is viewed by USEF and/or FEI (in terms of legality in show horses)? Have there been any studies released regarding the effects of CBD/Hemp in horses?
    USEF has said it WILL test positive for a prohibited substance. As I understand it, there is not a test that can determine CBD from pot, and there are no studies to indicate a "safe withdrawal period" either. (the lack of a discriminating test is also causing issues for police departments. )

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post

      I'm curious how you feel about the use of Depo-Provera in show horses.
      I thought it was illegal for geldings? Anything intended to alter performance is illegal?

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Mouse&Bay View Post

        I don’t have the time to do the research for your Palm Beach. If CBA is a typo (I think you’re referencing CBD) maybe you can find the article referenced below which says it could lower inflammation (ie anti inflammatory as opposed to something increasing inflammation and thus being inflammatory).
        If you want to spend you money on something that on paper could work, knock yourself out. There is NO research to support it. What you are linking does NOT show that hemp oil or CBD oil reduces inflammation in horses. If my horse comes in from the pasture with a big leg or something, I'm sure as heck not giving him something that could work. Or he has a long day at the show. He is getting something with decades of use and research behind it. People looove to jump on the crazy supplement train.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

          If you want to spend you money on something that on paper could work, knock yourself out. There is NO research to support it. What you are linking does NOT show that hemp oil or CBD oil reduces inflammation in horses. If my horse comes in from the pasture with a big leg or something, I'm sure as heck not giving him something that could work. Or he has a long day at the show. He is getting something with decades of use and research behind it. People looove to jump on the crazy supplement train.
          Actually we know that one of the constituents of hemp SEED oil is GLA, a prostaglandin regulator, can be used by the body to lower PGE2 levels and raise PGE1 levels, thus reducing inflammation. This is particularly beneficial for horses on misoprositol for hind gut ulcers. Misoprositol is a synthetic prostaglandin. As the dosage of Misoprositol is reduced, hemp seed oil can help regulate inflammatory conditions in the GI tract.

          Would I use hemp seed oil on a horse with a swollen leg? No.

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          • #45
            Nobody is suggesting any of these things for acute inflammation, any more than they'd say give a horse a pound of flax if he came in with a fat leg.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

              See, if you are planning to use it for a "neurotic" horse, you must believe it has some mood altering ability.

              An example of an NSAID that doesn't seem to really alter moods would be Advil or Bute. You would never take Advil for your own anxiety or Bute a horse that was anxious but had no pain.

              I think it's fine if CBD works in part by being mood altering. But if that's the case, then I wish people were upfront about this and not pretending that it only works on pain receptors. I get that this is a holdover from trying to prove that it is "medicinal" and not "recreational," a distinction that people felt they needed to make during the period that "medical" cannabis was OK but "recreational" illegal (still the case in many States).

              But I want to know what things actually *do* before I take them, or use them on an animal. And I distrust the current discussions about CBD because I think there is a vested interest in people not being quite honest, and mystifying it's actions.
              I'll say it again - I don't notice any mood altering in myself. I'm not hiding anything by what I feel it does for me. I'm also interested in hemp anti inflammatory products for my other OTTB.

              This is like getting into an argument about essential oils and whether they help with anxiety, etc. You could have this same discussion regarding almost all natural products.

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              • #47
                I seem to recall from what I've read (could be wrong since I was looking into this back in January), since the THC content is very low in CBD oil derived from hemp you won't usually see a lot of mood altering?The other benefits (such as pain and anti inflammation, help with appetite etc) are present.

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                • #48
                  The type of mood altering effect from THC, the psychoactive "high", isn't going to happen in properly made CBD oil. THC content has to be extremely low.

                  But there are other mechanisms of "mood altering", depending on why the mood exists. Moodiness due to chronic low-grade inflammation or pain, or some mood disorders (depression, anxiety), or some auto-immune issues, might be helped due to the actions of the components of CBD.
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                  • #49
                    It seems there may be some confusion between hemp, which was legalized federally in Farm Bill, and marijuana. While they are both strains of cannabis, I compare it to broccoli vs brussel spouts (both technically mustard plants). There is also a debate on whether cbd is the newest form of snake oil, whether it gets you "high" like thc, and whether there is scientific evidence to support conclusions on these issues. Here is an article that may help educate those that are interested, called, "Cannabinoid Delivery Systems for Pain and Inflammation Treatment" published on the US govt's NIH site: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6222489/.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                      I thought it was illegal for geldings? Anything intended to alter performance is illegal?
                      It is currently legal across the board, provided a D&M report is filed.
                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post

                        Actually we know that one of the constituents of hemp SEED oil is GLA, a prostaglandin regulator, can be used by the body to lower PGE2 levels and raise PGE1 levels, thus reducing inflammation. This is particularly beneficial for horses on misoprositol for hind gut ulcers. Misoprositol is a synthetic prostaglandin. As the dosage of Misoprositol is reduced, hemp seed oil can help regulate inflammatory conditions in the GI tract.

                        Would I use hemp seed oil on a horse with a swollen leg? No.
                        Pulling threads of truth together does not prove cause and effect. Show some research that supports spending $$ on hemp oil is smart wrt reducing “inflammation,” which is another one of those internet hysteria buzzwords. What exactly is inflamed, how do you know it’s inflamed, and how are you measuring the reduction of inflammation? Then maybe I’ll open my wallet if something comes along that needs to be anti inflamed.

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                        • #52
                          Expecting gross evidence of acute inflammation, and ignoring the more subtle signs of chronic, low-grade inflammation, is missing an enormous piece of a puzzle.
                          ______________________________
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by sk_pacer View Post

                            thing about cocaine and horses is there cannot be enough administered to do good/harm by the methods used; even a wet tongue tie can only hold a very small dose which was just enough to give a bad test. You don't shoot a horse up, nor can you induce it to snort the stuff like a human will do, so all it really produced was bad tests and the horses didn't do any better or worse than before; there are other, more insidious drugs that do not require a huge dose (think a horse size line and it is pretty huge). As to the weed, it was often used on heavey horses along with an old time remedy called Asthmador and it did clear the lungs and ease the breathing
                            Wow. Thanks so much for your insight!
                            Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post

                              It is currently legal across the board, provided a D&M report is filed.
                              Well then I don't have an opinion about it.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                Expecting gross evidence of acute inflammation, and ignoring the more subtle signs of chronic, low-grade inflammation, is missing an enormous piece of a puzzle.
                                What is inflamed and how do you know? Sounds like the infamous toxins that people are trying to flush out.

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                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                  What is inflamed and how do you know? Sounds like the infamous toxins that people are trying to flush out.
                                  It's not hard to find any number of studies looking at low grade chronic inflammation issues. Work hard? You've got some inflammation going on somewhere. Got an AI issue? I betcha there's some inflammation somewhere. Allergies? Inflammation. Did you know just being obese can cause systemic inflammation? I have no idea why this seems such a shock to you.

                                  Why do you think MSM helps some horses? It's a proven anti-inflammatory, but still not something you'd go "oh look, fat leg, bypass the bute just give him MSM". It's not for that kind of inflammation. But it helps some horses just the same. How do you know? How do you know anything that's not obvious? You start digging, make some reasonable guesses, and try something. If you don't trust cbd or hemp, then by all means use whatever it is you do trust.
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Palm Beach View Post

                                    What is inflamed and how do you know? Sounds like the infamous toxins that people are trying to flush out.
                                    Which toxins are you referring to?....metabolic toxins, ROS, heavy metal toxins, environmental toxins?

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post

                                      Which toxins are you referring to?....metabolic toxins, ROS, heavy metal toxins, environmental toxins?
                                      I think that's the point . These things get advertised with verbiage about toxins that makes no sense biologically.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                                        I think that's the point . These things get advertised with verbiage about toxins that makes no sense biologically.
                                        The fact that merchants flog some product or other and make ridiculous claims for it does not necessarily mean that the product has no effects at all, or is not efficacious for some conditions. vitamin C is a good example.
                                        "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                        ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by JB View Post

                                          It's not hard to find any number of studies looking at low grade chronic inflammation issues. Work hard? You've got some inflammation going on somewhere. Got an AI issue? I betcha there's some inflammation somewhere. Allergies? Inflammation. Did you know just being obese can cause systemic inflammation? I have no idea why this seems such a shock to you.

                                          Why do you think MSM helps some horses? It's a proven anti-inflammatory, but still not something you'd go "oh look, fat leg, bypass the bute just give him MSM". It's not for that kind of inflammation. But it helps some horses just the same. How do you know? How do you know anything that's not obvious? You start digging, make some reasonable guesses, and try something. If you don't trust cbd or hemp, then by all means use whatever it is you do trust.
                                          There are many solutions, some of which are free or pretty cheap, to all of the above. Why you would use a little understood and untested product and expensive to boot is beyond me.

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