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jump into water at training?

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  • jump into water at training?

    We went down to school at Olney today; they left their courses flagged from their recognized HT last weekend. According to the omnibus these are suppose to be good move-up courses. They had a jump into (rather deep) water on the training course. I looked at the USEA XC course guidelines and it seems like this isn't something that is suppose to be on a training course. But it isn't really clear.

    So is this something I should expect to see at training? We school stuff like this at Windurra, but my horse wasn't having any parts of the one today. He usually has no problem with water, but I think he didn't like the deep water.

    We were hoping to move up at the Olney starter, but I think they typically run over the same course as the recognized (at least they did last year). This years training course looked much more difficult than last year's.

  • #2
    Yes, it's not uncommon to see it at Training.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by Highflyer View Post
      Yes, it's not uncommon to see it at Training.
      Well, I will have to find some more inviting ones to school!

      Comment


      • #4
        The rule book specifically says a jump into water is fair game at Training. I've seen it as a jump immediately before/landing in water or a drop into water.

        Comment


        • #5
          A jump into water is something I would expect at Training - could be a simple bank down, a bank with a log, or a small jump at the edge of the water. It's been the exception to not have a drop in - these days more and more there are two water jumps on course, so even if one is a splash through, you likely have a jump in the water.
          Blugal

          You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

          Comment


          • #6
            Sounds like you need to school the drop before presenting straightforward. Did you get his feet wet first? Trot a smaller drop diagonally going off the sides first?

            I did see a clinician, he got on, work a horse that had a fear of a drop. He presented and quietly held that horse at the face of the drop until that horse finally had to go forward. The horse danced and danced at the presentation, then all of a sudden slipped down into the water - no jump just a nice quiet slip. The clinician just sat there and kept his leg on. No hand he spread the reins to work the horse with his seat and leg. He sat quiet and patient. Breathe.
            Don't let anyone tell you that your ideas or dreams are foolish. There is a millionaire walking around who invented the pool noodle.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Thanks PG. We did school the water, and he did a drop into the shallower water no problem. It was the jump in that he wouldn't do. As I said, it may have been the depth of the water than he didn't like. We have been getting an unusual amount of rain, and many of the local water jumps are quite deep right now.

              Comment


              • #8
                If the water is deep....I don't school it. Good way to shake your horse's confidence. I was shocked at a xc schooling watching people schooling water at FairHill when the water was really deep. I had ONLY gone to the schooling to school the water....took one look at how deep it was and passed. I watched more than one kid...with a (not very good) local pro...school again and again and their ponies/horses were almost falling down and you could see them losing confidence. Me...I just did some canter sets instead of jumping and FairHill offered to refund me the schooling fee since I was just there to school water (very nice of them).

                Yes...a jump into the water is common at Training.....so yes you need to school it a lot. But please don't school it ever the water is deep on a horse who is already unsure of it. It will just create more of a problem for you to undo.
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                  Yes...a jump into the water is common at Training.....so yes you need to school it a lot. But please don't school it ever the water is deep on a horse who is already unsure of it. It will just create more of a problem for you to undo.
                  Yes, in retrospect I wish I hadn't tried it. That's why we didn't push it when it was clear he wasn't confident.

                  I think I was at that Fair Hill schooling a few weeks ago. We didn't do much at the water either. 1st world eventer problem--all this rain is messing up the water jumps .

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was just thinking I wish they would introduce very small down banks into shallow water at Novice.Baby down bank in, baby up bank out. Maybe they do but my venues never have.
                    "Punch him in the wiener. Then leave." AffirmedHope

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CindyCRNA View Post
                      I was just thinking I wish they would introduce very small down banks into shallow water at Novice.Baby down bank in, baby up bank out. Maybe they do but my venues never have.
                      This board literally had this conversation within the past 6 weeks or so. The rules actually permit a revetting for the bank in, no more than 18 inches. However, many of us prefer to have Novice remain Novice so that horses green to that level aren't forced to jump into the water. An option, such as flagging it open with either a small revetted bank or a regular ramp in, would be great.

                      ETA: it's actually 1'8. See my post below for the current rules etc.
                      Last edited by Blugal; Aug. 13, 2017, 12:22 AM.
                      Blugal

                      You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blugal View Post

                        This board literally had this conversation within the past 6 weeks or so. The rules actually permit a revetting for the bank in, no more than 18 inches. However, many of us prefer to have Novice remain Novice so that horses green to that level aren't forced to jump into the water. An option, such as flagging it open with either a small revetted bank or a regular ramp in, would be great.
                        No, the "rules" do not clearly permit a drop into water for Novice. Unfortunately, the "rules" are so poorly written that nobody can really be sure about this, hence the quotation marks.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here's the link to the thread.

                          Here's the link to the USEF Rules for Eventing. If the banks for water need to be revetted, the maximum is 1'8 (not 18" as I stated).

                          Normally I don't get into US rules too much, not sure why I did this time.
                          Blugal

                          You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've seen drop into water with a tiny (6"?) log on top (Seneca), drop in 3 (?) strides to a small jump in the water (MDHT), jump right in front of the water to jump right outside the water (Loudoun @ Morven Park), fair size jump in (not into) the water (Hunt Club), jump 1 (?) stride before water to jump a few strides after (MDHT). MDHT also had a bank out the water - one stride - bank into the water last year on a 'move up' course, but got so much flak from course walkers they added a friendlier option.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              in Area 1, jump into water and/or a bank into water is pretty common. My first Training event was over ten years ago and it was the 13th question on course, a big drop in and a bank up jump out.
                              AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I almost always see a jump or drop into water, and usually a jump in water as well in the training courses I have done. In competitions, you can always take your horse through the water first or school another drop/jump into the water before you do the jump on your course as long as you don't mind getting time penalties

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Ok, I thought a jump IN the water wasn't allowed at training.

                                  To clarify my original question (since there seems to be some confusion), I was referring to a jump at the very edge of the water, so that you landed in water. Not a drop into water. Although it sounds like both are common on training courses.

                                  Thanks!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Both a jump into and a drop into water are common-- in this area a jump in water is less common. I've only seen it on a Prelim/ Training and at the T3D.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by kcmel View Post
                                      Ok, I thought a jump IN the water wasn't allowed at training.

                                      To clarify my original question (since there seems to be some confusion), I was referring to a jump at the very edge of the water, so that you landed in water. Not a drop into water. Although it sounds like both are common on training courses.

                                      Thanks!
                                      At least in Area II, a water to water question is NOT common at training level but you do occasionally see it. I would expect it on a championship course for sure. They are common at Prelim.
                                      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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