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New Amateur preliminary track? Rumors? Facts?

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  • New Amateur preliminary track? Rumors? Facts?

    Does anyone have anything to say about the rumor that there might be a new amateur preliminary track being developed that eases the preliminary cross country course requirements, or changes them in some way? Seems to me I heard something about this and would appreciate any thoughts or a discussion about it. What have you heard? What exactly is it? Is it for anyone or only amateur riders?
    Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
    Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

  • #2
    geeze, i hope not...

    I would rather see a tougher training track to better prepare riders for the Prelim move up.


    • #3
      Originally posted by tommygirl View Post
      I would rather see a tougher training track to better prepare riders for the Prelim move up.
      Leave the course specs as-is and have riders and trainers who are responsible enough to prepare properly. As an amateur, I would hope that people would think I am just as competent as a pro or YR. There is no reason to place emphasis on amateurs as 'incapable' or 'needing assistance'. I'm an ammy because of my age and the fact that my job is not horse-related, not for any other reason


      • #4
        I agree with the others. I would be personally offended to see this happen. I would never enter it in a million years. Going preliminary for an amateur is a BIG DEAL. I would feel like it were being downplayed if there was a course like this.
        Going to the T3DE last year was like doing an upgraded T course. After that I was more than ready to do P. If some amateurs want an amateur prelim tell them to enter the T3DE.


        • #5
          Geeze, I'm with everyone else. Why dumb down prelim any further? It's a big step up from training but I think there are people out there who are already taking the fast route to prelim when they aren't ready. Why encourage more? Furthermore, I feel (and maybe it's just me) that if you are TRULY ready for the next level up, you should not need a "move up" course to get your there. If you are ready for the level, you are ready for the level. Period.

          Training courses need to be beafed up, prelim doesn't need to be made softer.


          • #6
            why would you call it "preliminary" if it isn't. If there is some sense of a need for a level between training and prelim, fine, call it TP (and I know this is a designation for a test with training XC and P dressage and sj, but couldn't resist), but then it should be for everyone including 13 year old fabulous young riders basically ready, but not old enough to go preliminary, professionals on young horses, etc. One of the coolest things about eventing is that we do get to compete on even ground and the fact that I've chosen a job that isn't full time horses, doesn't mean that I don't want to rise to the challenge at the same level as it is now. Do championships, do the training 3 day, have some tougher training courses that require qualifications and do those, but I agree with the other posters.
            OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!


            • #7
              I agree, leave prelim the way it is!


              • #8
                Originally posted by tommygirl View Post
                I would rather see a tougher training track to better prepare riders for the Prelim move up.
                I totally agree. I think this is critical.


                • #9
                  There is a mention of this idea in the newest Eventing mag -- it sounds as though it is being seriously considered, and would focus on simpler, "galloping" courses with less technicality.

                  I am not sure what my reaction to this would have been 8 months ago, but as a very average amateur who just moved up to prelim by dint of a lot of hard work, my reaction now was "NO!!!"
                  I am SO proud of our moveup, and have learned so much in the prep process -- a lot of folks I know moved up sooner than I did, and some had some real "seat of the pants" moments, but I think THAT should be addressed by harder trainings or more stringent qualifications, NOT by making prelim easier!!!

                  I am sure we will encounter harder courses next year that really challenge (and maybe defeat!) our skills, but that gives me a goal, not a reason to want to run easier courses...
                  The big man -- my lost prince

                  The little brother, now my main man


                  • #10
                    I hate the idea of an ammy prelim track for all the reasons stated above.

                    Tracks are known within an area for being "move-ups," "average," or "max" and there has been some talk of rating tracks accordingly. But really it is up to the rider and coach to select appropriate tracks for their horse's and/or rider's development, and ditto it's up to the rider and coach to take responsibility and know if the courses they've run have them properly prepped for the next move (be it a one-star or a bump up to intermediate). All prelims are not equal, nor should they be, but they idea of a whole separate track for ammy riders seems counter to the spirit of eventing where the course is the test and the level playing field.

                    Just as all prelim tracks are not created equal, neither are tracks of other levels. Some advance courses are Rolex preps, others are move ups. Same sort of variation at training level. The rules give a range: you will be tested on at least "this" level of skills and potentially up to "that" level of skills, but no more. Competitors in an area should ask around and get a feel for what events they should enter depending on where they are in the learning curve of mastering each level.
                    Hindsight bad, foresight good.


                    • #11
                      Another vote for NO!! If you want to do something easy, ride at Training. If you want bigger jumps and less technicality, go play with the hunters. They need more people in the 4' divisions..... nice, easy courses, but they're 4'.

                      If they do this, I wouldn't ride in that division. When Star makes it to Prelim, it will be a "real" one.


                      • #12
                        I will join the chorus of "no"
                        I think there is a big gap between training and prelim (and one that I too often think folks do not see- as in "I have gone clean at training and so must be ready for prelim," errrr no). But the answer for that is to offer some tough training course options not dumb down prelim.
                        As someone who is working really hard to be able to do the move-up to prelim next season, I don't want it made easier even though that would mean I could move up sooner. It would cheapen the accomplishment and the fact that I am an ammie who hopefully will be able to do prelim, will make it all that much sweeter when I do it.
                        There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)


                        • #13
                          I was wondering if anyone would start a post about this...

                          There was a blip about it in this issue of Eventing Mag. I found it a very interesting concept. When I really think about it - I tend to agree with the prior posters in this thread -why "dumb" it down for an Ammy? I am an amature as well, and when I move up to prelim, I know I don't want to feel as though my move up was any less of a big deal than anyone elses - ammy or pro.

                          I do tend to think, you are either ready for the level or your aren't. With that being said, I do think there is some value in more detailed course descriptions being provided in the omnibus. Lets face it, not all courses are created equal, some are easier than others, more appropriate for a move up, some are for someone more seasoned at that level. Just the blanket statement about the X-C in the ominbus about "average for horses/riders with some experience at the level" is not much help. This is something I think needs to be addressed prior to considering a dummied down version of the different divisions.


                          • #14
                            E-A, I totally agree with you! We have had lots of conversation about this (including various rating schemes that have been suggested) and I think it's fair to say no one has come up with a system that can get consensus yet...but most agree it would be BETTER if the descriptions were more helpful.

                            And I would really like to see a quasi-formal effort to create more move-up prep within the Training tracks. I basically stopped running training when I was getting ready to move up because the xc issues I was struggling to master were just not going to be ON any training track I knew...but if a few of the courses had had harder options, or we saw more prelim "questions" at training heights, that would have been very helpful!
                            The big man -- my lost prince

                            The little brother, now my main man


                            • #15
                              No way - and if they had such a track, I wouldn't ride in it! Am I the only one who gets a kick out of competing with pros? If you want a straightforward gallopy course, choose your events accordingly. If you want more technicality, same thing. Don't know which is which? Well, if you don't either know enough yourself to know, and don't ride with someone who does, maybe you shouldn't be going P. And that's my snarking for the day.


                              • #16
                                Not in favour of this idea....besides, why do we want to add more burden to organizers? Definitely NO!
                                One thing you can give and still keep is your word.


                                • #17
                                  What about the associated $$$ with building a bunch of faux prelim courses? Why not take the money and expand on previous courses?


                                  • #18
                                    I thought the black flag option rule (EV140.2c) was supposed to make it easier for course designers and organizers to provide the members that are moving up and maybe need a softer question to answer while they and/or the horse gain experience.

                                    With this rule in place it seems that they have already provided a means to accomplish this goal.
                                    Last edited by horsecents; Nov. 5, 2007, 12:31 PM. Reason: add rule number
                                    1. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.


                                    • #19
                                      Not just no, but H**L NO!

                                      I agree, no point in dumbing it down, and if a CD wants to make a softer route for less-experienced Prelim riders, he can use the black flag options and they can take the time penalties.

                                      Third Charm Event Team


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by bambam View Post
                                        It would cheapen the accomplishment and the fact that I am an ammie who hopefully will be able to do prelim, will make it all that much sweeter when I do it.
                                        Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.