• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

coroner's verdict: BE needs to improve rider rep system and course design

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • coroner's verdict: BE needs to improve rider rep system and course design

    From Horse & Hound: Belton inquest calls for better BE rider representatives

    The story has a good photo of what is very clearly a WTF obstacle.

    "I am concerned that young and less-experienced riders felt a reluctance to report concerns about the course to their rider reps, for fear of seeming foolish or being thought a troublemaker," said Dr Fisher.

    The coroner was concerned that only two fences on the Belton course were fitted with frangible pins designed to break on impact.

    He asked BE to increase the types of jumps which can be made breakable.

    ....

    The coroner's final request was that BE controls the use of model animals and mannequins as fence dressing.
    Note that this is a coroner's inquest -- an actual investigation and hearings held outside the control of BE or other sport orgs.

  • #2
    JER - what is it about that table to coop combination that gives you that reaction?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      The figurines on top of the second element.

      (Or did you not realize those were fake humans?)

      Comment


      • #4
        Whoa. Yeah - I missed that completely. Never mind.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by GotSpots View Post
          Whoa. Yeah - I missed that completely. Never mind.


          (To properly prepare our horses for fences like this, we'd have to start with Barbies on BN fences and teach them to jump progressively bigger people as the fences got taller. )

          Comment


          • #6
            Good grief, I didn't realize there were now fences with the mannequins/statues ON THE FENCE not on the "standards" which is plenty spooky enough. Yes, let's make it so we have to override our horses' natural instincts not to plow right into or step on other living beings. Good God, we need a coroner to tell us this?

            Sorry, I'm a total smurf so maybe this is ho-hum to a lot of people but geez!
            If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

            Comment


            • #7
              So the horses were supposed to jump life-like fake geese and fake people? Who was the course designer?
              Hindsight bad, foresight good.

              Comment


              • #8
                And was the designer responsible for the decorations, or was that someone else?
                Hindsight bad, foresight good.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Badger View Post
                  So the horses were supposed to jump life-like fake geese and fake people? Who was the course designer?
                  The article says Sue Benson was the course designer and she said she will not use fake people/animals in the future.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rallycairn View Post
                    Good grief, I didn't realize there were now fences with the mannequins/statues ON THE FENCE not on the "standards" which is plenty spooky enough. Yes, let's make it so we have to override our horses' natural instincts not to plow right into or step on other living beings. Good God, we need a coroner to tell us this?

                    Sorry, I'm a total smurf so maybe this is ho-hum to a lot of people but geez!
                    That was my reaction as well!
                    http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Glad she realized fake people were a bad idea before she designs the course for 2012
                      There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bambam View Post
                        Glad she realized fake people were a bad idea before she designs the course for 2012
                        Yeah, she now has to go and do a casting call to line up a bunch of "extras" to pose at a variety of fences on course. Talk about added costs to the horse venue!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Badger View Post
                          So the horses were supposed to jump life-like fake geese and fake people? Who was the course designer?


                          I think you were supposed to jump either to the left of the people or the right (making it an accuarcy question).



                          but still not nice.
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Looks like Sue Benson was the designer and the biggest complaint was the striding between the elements:

                            "The combination was made up of an angled pheasant feeder (12), followed by two long or three short strides to a table (13a) then another two long strides to another angled pheasant feeder (13b), in front of which were two lifelike wooden figurines. "

                            http://www.idealhomemagazine.co.uk/i...le_283083.html
                            Hindsight bad, foresight good.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Badger View Post
                              Looks like Sue Benson was the designer and the biggest complaint was the striding between the elements:

                              "The combination was made up of an angled pheasant feeder (12), followed by two long or three short strides to a table (13a) then another two long strides to another angled pheasant feeder (13b), in front of which were two lifelike wooden figurines. "
                              Italics mine.

                              'Two long strides' to the figurine-festooned fence means your horse has to keep moving forward to make the distance while trying to sort out whether the humans are real or fake or moving or still.

                              BTW, Sue Benson is the designer for London 2012.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by JER View Post
                                BTW, Sue Benson is the designer for London 2012.
                                Wasn't there some controversy about another course design she did several years ago? I seem to remember reading about it in my British Eventing mag, but it was early in her designing career, and I don't remember details.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by BAC View Post
                                  Wasn't there some controversy about another course design she did several years ago? I seem to remember reading about it in my British Eventing mag, but it was early in her designing career, and I don't remember details.
                                  You're thinking of Bramham, where she was the designer for 10 years.

                                  Her final year there, IIRC, caused a bit of an uproar.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by RAyers View Post
                                    Yeah, she now has to go and do a casting call to line up a bunch of "extras" to pose at a variety of fences on course. Talk about added costs to the horse venue!
                                    I bet that is a large part of the reason for the recently reported 34 million in cost over-runs for the 2012 Greenwich eventing venue

                                    There were reported complaints/scratched heads about her selection as course designer for the Olympics.
                                    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I can honestly say that probably my horse would be the only one charging at those children. I guess she was designed for abused Amish horses who don't like people in their way.
                                      Un-f***-believable that they thought the combo was okay #1 and then to put PEOPLE on them! Honestly! Horses have been bred for eons to trust and love us and they now want us to jump them???
                                      Even duct tape can't fix stupid

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Light bulb moment: People are the perfect safe jump material.

                                        People are collapsible, deformable AND frangible. And they provide cushioning when you land on them.

                                        And there's loads of science behind that statement. What material has been studied more thoroughly than the human body? Think about the anecdotal history of accidents, all the evidence from various wrecks and wars, etc. Who needs TRL when you have all of human history on your side?

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X