• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Pin firing means you can't event him?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    A lot of times pin firing was used as a preventative. For bowed tendons, sore shins, etc. They are not always a sign of injury, my father grew up on the track and some trainers did that with youngsters even before they were injured.


    • #22
      Originally posted by deltawave View Post
      I'm surprised it's still done and would count it as a point against the horse for having been unfortunate enough to be in a barn that still practices 18th century veterinary techniques.

      Other than that, it wouldn't concern me.

      I second this.

      It's a much outdated, stupid procedure, but in no way means there is anything wrong with the horse. Some old school race trainers used it when there was nothing wrong to prevent bucked shins.

      Any trainer who would say that they would never use a horse for jumping or eventing just because they were pinfired is an idiot.


      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by ThirdCharm View Post
        Well, either the trainer is an idiot, or they are in an area where there is a track that has vets/trainers that pinfire and they want to reduce the chances of their clients getting ideas about finding/buying inexpensive horses instead of paying them a hefty commission to find more expensive ones.

        Oh I'm such a cynic....

        No not a cynic. You went exactly where I wanted to go ( the idiot comment) but like I said, having been out of the eventing world for many years, thought on the subject does change. And yes, I do think it was a self-serving sort of idiocy in that the OTTB's who are selling for less can certainly have been pinfired so by this trainer's proclamation they will be eliminated from the field of potential purchase prospects. And unfortunately these OTTB's really need good homes where they can be made into useful citizens and have a good life after the track. So, is it safe to say that the majority of you horsemen/women agree that pinfiring DOES NOT categorically exclude a horse from a career as a jumper/eventer, God forbid hunter?
        " It's about the horse, and that's it."
        George Morris


        • #24

          Pin firing still occurs at tracks today, albeit it is not quite as common practice as once was. The theory behind it is that the holes burned into the periosteum(the thin cover of the bone) of the bone will send a message to the body that it needs to send extra blood to that area to heal it, promoting faster healing then normal. The body may then lay down extra bone which calcifies over the shin. Line firing is what I believe they did to tendons. But a bowed tendon will never be as strong as the original tendon as opposed to shins. Now days most shins are blistered, or shockwaved. Tendons also used to be spliced frequently but now can be injected with the PRP(Plasma) or Stem Cell with great success. All in all time still warrants the best healing in conjunction with these methods. But I would not be hesitant about buying a fired horse. Tendons can last forever or a day!
          Forward is good


          • #25
            My OTTB was born in 2003 and came to me previously pinfired in 2008, so it is still being done. It is very clearly over an old and set shin splint. It's 100% healed and had nothing at all to do with a bowed tendon. I would not hesitate to jump my gelding.

            I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this trainer thinks that pinfiring is done only for bowed tendons. Definitely not the case. There was a lady at my barn who saw the pinfiring scars on my guy's leg and was shocked that I would even ride him at all. Upon further questioning I realized this lady had pinfiring confused with a neurectomy!!!


            • #26
              my boy was born in 1991, raced for about 6 yrs....I got him when he was 10...he is pinfired in both front legs, apparently because of splints, as far as I can tell.....I have evented him up to training level, done a 1/2*, he has, (knock wood!!!), taken hardly a lame step in the almost 10 years that I've had him. (Actually, he has been off all of 3 times, for only a couple of days, and that was due to feet and VERY minor) At coming age 19, we are still tooling around at novice level, and he is still going strong! So no, I would not worry about pinfiring, if that was the only issue. I would probably think twice about purchasing a horse with a bow history, though.....JMO....
              I'm not tense, just terribly, terribly alert!
              If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a horrible warning!


              • #27
                My old eq horse was pinfired and it certainly didn't bother her one bit. That was back when it was more common. We jumped a lot and we jumped big a lot at that barn and the only time she wasn't sound was from a shipping accident. Wouldn't bother me but it does seem like a pretty old school practice.
                "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."


                • #28
                  I had this big long novel typed out, deleted it, and find myself reduced to: trainer is an idiot.
                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


                  • #29
                    Once upon a time, I obtained an OTTB stallion that had had a basilar fracture of the sesamoid and had been pinfired prior to that. We rehabbed him slowly, and he eventually went prelim before a pasture accident gave him a high and low bow on the other foreleg at 9yo.

                    Rehabbed him again, and retired him to his breeder (a lovely, responsible breeder!). He seemed so healthy that her sons took him out field hunting until he was retired due to old age!

                    So, I guess my take would be that if all things are equal (ie: no remaining or underlying problem), a pinfired horse has every chance of being as sound or lame as a horse that wasn't pinfired.

                    WA, I typed my novel while you were being the soul of brevity!
                    Last edited by frugalannie; Mar. 23, 2010, 10:35 AM. Reason: Added note to War Admiral.
                    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
                    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                      Fractures on the other hand do come back stronger than they were before the injury because the body lays down extra calcium. They almost never repeat the same fracture in the same leg.
                      Slightly OT, but I see most of y'all saying you would choose a pin-fired horse over one that bowed. Regarding the above quote, would you choose a horse with a slab fracture of the knee over one that bowed?... slab fracture of the knee surgically repaired with a screw. In an OTTB.

                      Which would be riskier in an eventing prospect? Just curious.


                      • #31
                        I can't answer the question as posted but I would be less likely to attempt to lay a horse off and try to bring him back to the races after bowing than after a slab fracture.
                        McDowell Racing Stables

                        Home Away From Home


                        • #32
                          One old trainer to another:

                          "What are you firing that hoss for?"

                          " 'bout $500"......
                          "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism"

                          Charles Krauthammer speaking about Trump


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                            I can't answer the question as posted but I would be less likely to attempt to lay a horse off and try to bring him back to the races after bowing than after a slab fracture.
                            So in the short term, they bounce back quicker from a slab fracture? Or are more likely to re-injure a tendon on the track, I guess you're saying.

                            In the long term, though, I assume arthritis would be a concern for a slab fracture of the knee.


                            • #34
                              Very informative thread.

                              Slightly OT, but I can't remember which kind of bow is worse...a high or a low. Anyone?
                              \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River


                              • #35
                                I've seen many jumpers and eventers that have been pin fired. At one point, it was so commonplace that horses were pin fired on the track, that you hardly saw an OTTB that had not been fired just a little bit.
                                Rural Property Specialist
                                Keller Williams Realtors

                                Email Me for Horse Property!


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                  I also know of a local ottb placement place that does not let horses with bowed tendons go to jumping homes, suggests them for flatwork only.
                                  And I know of quite a few with old cold bowed tendons that have competed sucessfully. One with both fronts bowed that competed in the JR/AO jumpers and then went on to compete at 1.20 meters until he was in his 20's. Depends on the bow and how it was treated. As far as pin firing goes....there was awhile where horses were pinfired as a precaution....not that I worked for any of those trainers but I had heard of the procedure.


                                  • #37
                                    Back in the day, pin firing was done profalactically (boy that isn't spelled right) - the idea was, as I was told by a trainer, that the pin firing created scar tissue on the shin which strengthened the bone. It was along the same idea as when someone says that if you break a bone, the healed part is stronger than the bone on either side of the healed break. Trainers thought if the shin was fired, it would be less likely to buck. (bucked shins same as popped splint). The trainer who told me about this thought that pin firing after the splint was popped was useless. I tend to agree. If one agrees that the premise of scar tissue on the bone/shin is stronger to begin with. Why pin fire after the shin is popped, the injury of the popped splint will create scar tissue anyway. I suppose you might be createing more fired area up and down the whole shin, so that would be useful. If pin firing is even useful.

                                    I had never heard of it for tendons, but I could be wrong, I don't know much. I just thought it strengthened the cannon bone for popped splints.

                                    Anyway, I would never blink twice at a pin fired horse. Makes no never mind to me. Either it makes the leg stronger or not, but it has nothing to do with injuries or not. Doesn't mean a tendon was bowed, anyway. Its to prevent popped splints.

                                    These days I don't think folks do it much, buy some race trainers might. Who cares? Doesn't bother the horse for the rest of his life.
                                    Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                                      Back in the day, pin firing was done profalactically (boy that isn't spelled right) - the idea was, as I was told by a trainer, that the pin firing created scar tissue on the shin which strengthened the bone.
                                      I have heard this argument, but the counter argument is that there are many less drastic measures that can be taken to ensure long-term strength of a horse's legs. These include (but are not limited to): modified training regimens, rest after periods of strenuous work, allowing the tissues of the young horse to develop more fully before subjecting the horse to such strenuous work. I realize that these approaches require a re-structuring of the racing industry in many instances, but when it is necessary to preemptively injure horses in order to toughen them up I think that alternatives need to be sought.

                                      The bottom line (IMHO) about buying a previously pin-fired horse is that a good PPE should be conducted but it does not categorically suggest that the horse is unfit to jump. It DOES say something (again - IMO) about the quality or sophistication of care that the horse may have been given at the track. I feel the same way about horses whose records show that they were claimed a million times. It sometimes suggests that there is little ownership or investment in the well-being of the animal and it leads me to want to do more through investigation before handing over a check.

                                      Again, this is my personal feeling on the matter and represents a general rule that I adhere to based on my own experiences as a vet tech at the track.
                                      "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals" Immanuel Kant


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Czar View Post
                                        Very informative thread.

                                        Slightly OT, but I can't remember which kind of bow is worse...a high or a low. Anyone?
                                        High bow is worse. I would pass on a high bow but would take a chance on a low bow and take my vet's advice into consideration.


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by acking01 View Post
                                          So in the short term, they bounce back quicker from a slab fracture? Or are more likely to re-injure a tendon on the track, I guess you're saying.

                                          In the long term, though, I assume arthritis would be a concern for a slab fracture of the knee.
                                          Both. They would be ready to start back into training much sooner (6-9 months) after a slab fracture. They need a ton more time off to fully recover from a bow and are likely to rebow at any time regardless of how long you give them off before putting them back in training.
                                          McDowell Racing Stables

                                          Home Away From Home