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Clinton Anderson- FRAUD!

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  • Clinton Anderson- FRAUD!

    Did ya'll get as pissed as I did watching that joker work with Stephen Bradley???!?!?!?! I was SCREAMING at the TV when CA ripped Stephen's horse mouth off after the fence circling in a 5 meter circle. GRRR!!! Who the hell does CA think he is telling Stephen Bradley, Pan Am gold medalist, how to train his horse??? Did anyone else notice that after CA got off the horse was lathered and dripping sweat and when SB got back on his horse was not sweaty and lathered??
    RIP Kid Gloves (Holly) 1992 TBxHanv CCI*** mare.
    http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/holly
    New mare: Miss Bunny Express (Missy) 1995 AQHA Jumper mare.
    http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/missy

  • #2
    Real horseman are always learning

    Although I did not agree with all that Clinton Anderson did on the show, I stongly feel that no matter what level you ride at, you can always learn something new. Even if it is what NOT to do, people who are real horseman (woman) will agree that NO ONE ever knows it all. That is what is so amazing about the horse, you never stop learning. I hope you keep your eyes and ears open........and will consider the option of continuing to learn no matter what level you achieve.......

    Comment


    • #3
      It seems like the circle is the solution to everything! I agree, the horse didn't need fooling with and he did catch the horse who appeared pretty well-trained already in the mouth a few times.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by prudence View Post
        It seems like the circle is the solution to everything! I agree, the horse didn't need fooling with and he did catch the horse who appeared pretty well-trained already in the mouth a few times.
        No, the circle is the tool to wear them out and solve everything by making them too tired to care. IMO, all those *&^%^$^% guys have returned to the original concept of "breaking" horses as the basis of their technique. Break their spirits by riding them into the ground in awkward positions while drilling your ass into their backs...

        Did anyone see the dressage and x-c Part One? I fell asleep halfway through Part Two.
        Sportponies Unlimited
        Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

        Comment


        • #5
          What are you guys talking about? Was this a show on TV or online?
          http://www.chronicleofmyhorse.com/profile/pinkngreen

          Comment


          • #6
            CA

            It was on tv. Can't remember which channel, probably RFD.

            It was ugly though. I am sure SB was thinking "That's going to take 2 weeks to fix! From what I understand from "real world" western riders/trainers, CA is not well received among the professionals.
            www.3-dayeventing.com
            www.sycamoreridgefarmky.com

            Comment


            • #7
              I am by no means a pro, but CA lost any interest for me about 5 minutes after seeing him the first time. He was trying to get a horse to lead and he is facing the horse and jangling the lead line so that it would flip up and hit the horse in the chin. To me, that said right there that he didn't have a clue and I have not watched him since. Jumping Jeehosephat-a little child with no clue how to lead would do that, surely a grown man should know better.
              http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

              She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, it was very painful to watch.

                CA doesn't has ANY idea of how a horse is supposed to move, at all, western or english.
                He gets them so far behind the leg that it is very hard for anyone else to get them going again.

                Sure, the horses are very soft and flexible, but totally lack impusion, which is a terrible way to try to ride ANY horse, cutting, reining or jumping.

                Those horses he "works" with seem to end going like a car you take the gas pedal off and have to keep hitting the lever with a brick to get it moving.
                The horses seem to go in spurts of scooting, hit and miss if they will be balanced or strung out with their bodies, disconnected in front with his overbending.
                There is a video showing that perfectly, but it doesn't seem to link in here.
                Ok, got it to work.
                You can see the poor horses lack impulsion so bad they can't even stay up with a slow cow, keep getting further and further behind.
                Very ineffective and here used for their showing-off logo?

                http://downunderhorsemanship.com/Slim for Web.wmv

                CA's seat seems very hard on a horse's back, no lightness at all.
                I wanted to show him how to do a two point soooo bad.
                He evidently has not hear of Caprilli yet.

                CA shows to be talented and with a little basic instruction he would be jumping fine, on a trained horse that he doesn't get to "retrain" his way.
                I did like that he mentioned the horse was working maybe a little tired.
                He was and what he didn't know to look for, the horse was losing his bascule, getting flat, front end becoming loose, maybe from being tired, maybe from being ridden where he had to be pushed, having lost so much impulsion.
                Good that the jumps were low, toward's the end he may have knocked or crashed higher ones.

                The way he was teaching that fellow was very condescending, but that can be chalked off to personality, some people come across as arrogant and don't mean it.

                I had to keep doing something else, it was really hard to watch, because it was showing how ignorant CA was of so much technical stuff that most beginners know

                I have seen the same with some other clinicians, especially NH types.
                They lack the basics, but won't learn, because they don't know what they don't know, so think they are right and everyone else, for centuries, was wrong.
                Last edited by Bluey; Aug. 22, 2007, 09:27 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I missed this particular performance but am not surprised. We had a CA devotee at my last barn and all he did was turn the darn horse in little circles. Not surprisingly, the second he tried to ride it outside of the arena, it ran off and dumped him. Strange how that one-rein stop does not save your butt when the horse has had enough and is fed up!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh man - I missed it. Darn.

                    I did use his trailer loading video when I was having trouble teaching my horse to self load. It was a pretty desperate measure on my part - but after watching the video my horse does load beautifully.

                    I wouldn't say he taught me anything new - I'd say that I realized what I was doing wrong - sort of having another set of eyes. I was just getting in the way of a willing horse.

                    That whole teeny circle stuff reminds me of the "lunge till dead" notion.

                    On the whole - I'm very unimpressed of any of these NH guys. I think there is always more to learn, so I try and keep an open mind. Unfortunately - I usually walk away disgusted and feeling sorry for the horse.

                    We can be thankful that he's not walking around half naked like GoOnPullMyFinger PhonyBoy.
                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                    -Rudyard Kipling

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Anderson=Eventing=NOT!!!

                      Pleasssse...I need dramamine. Will these egocentric, self in-flated, video selling, whack jocks ever wise up? That horse will probably need chiro work after his "give me your face" sesssion.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't get RFDTV any more and my husband is glad. He told me if I was going to watch those types of shows I was to do it with my mouth shut. Of course I couldn't do that so I had to ban myself from watching the Parelli show and CA!

                        So why was CA on SB's horse anyway? Was he supposed to be helping him with some problem? I really wish I could have seen that.
                        http://www.chronicleofmyhorse.com/profile/pinkngreen

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I felt so incredibly sorry for Stephen! What a lovely horse.
                          The first thing I thought of when CA pulled that bullcrap was, 'Does he know a half-halt is much more effective?????' CA is a total ass. Since Stephen was being kind and generous as always and then CA had to pull a macho stunt like that. Thank God the horse just had a snaffle in his mouth and CA didn't have his SPURS (can you imagine???) on.
                          Poor Stephen, Poor horse!
                          Even duct tape can't fix stupid

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                            I did use his trailer loading video when I was having trouble teaching my horse to self load. It was a pretty desperate measure on my part - but after watching the video my horse does load beautifully.
                            I also tried the trailer loading video and it did absolutely nothing for my TB... he thought getting "worked" in circles was great fun and actually preferred it to getting on the trailer and 'not working.'
                            Road to the T3D
                            Translation
                            fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
                            skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I heard a good description of these people: "Simpsons catering to other Simpsons"
                              http://www.tamarackhill.com/

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by pwynnnorman View Post
                                No, the circle is the tool to wear them out and solve everything by making them too tired to care. IMO, all those *&^%^$^% guys have returned to the original concept of "breaking" horses as the basis of their technique. Break their spirits by riding them into the ground in awkward positions while drilling your ass into their backs...

                                Did anyone see the dressage and x-c Part One? I fell asleep halfway through Part Two.
                                I could not agree with you more!!!!!!!!!!

                                I also saw Part one and it was extremely boring. CA did not attempt to do anything but stand there and say "right-o" or "ok, mate". I was happy that they showed XC on TV so it wasnt that bad. CA did not try and hijack SB's horse or anything exciting (re:stupid) like that.
                                RIP Kid Gloves (Holly) 1992 TBxHanv CCI*** mare.
                                http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/holly
                                New mare: Miss Bunny Express (Missy) 1995 AQHA Jumper mare.
                                http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/missy

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by denny View Post
                                  I heard a good description of these people: "Simpsons catering to other Simpsons"

                                  That's pretty good! I've been to a few clinics....and know a few NH people. I wouldn't say it is all crap....but it is NOTHING new. All very basic horse sense and things good horsemen have been doing for centurys. Most of the good NH people I would say are all just good horsemen...not NH or any particular method. The difference is a good horsemen looks at many of these things as tools. They are tools you reach for when solving different problems and NOT all tools fit for each problem. You have do what works for a particular horse. And unfortunately, many of the devotees do not have enough horse sense to know what tool to use when or when to quit and try something else....or when a method isn't suited for a particular horse both because of that horse's temperment and the goals of the rider (what I want in a trail/pleasure horse is different from what I want in my event horse).

                                  I try to be open minded and learn from different people but if someone tells me this is the ONLY way to deal with an issue with ALL horses....that turns me off right away.
                                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I did not see the footage of SB. I did watch the footage provided in the link in the above post. Leaves me feeling a bit queasy. It always amazes me what horses put up with, and what willing creatures they are. CA's methods reminded me of the Rokkur controversy in the dressage world. WHY overflex a horses neck like CA does? What a horrible thing to do to an animal and call it "training"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      After watching that little video clip...

                                      ...can we say "rolkur", anybody? Okay, okay, at least Anky rides them forward off her seat and has more talent than CA (whatever you may think of Anky and her training methods, she DOES have talent), why did those poor horses that he was riding in the video clip spend most of their time with their heads tucked into their chests? Is this normal in CA techniques?

                                      Interesting. I didn't see the show with Stephen Bradley, but we have quite a few NH fans at my current boarding barn, and I have yet to see their horses improve in relaxation, stretching, improving their balance, etc. They DO a mean round pen, though ;^).

                                      ...but like someone said it best on the dressage forum:

                                      Which is the Olympic sport?
                                      Natural Horsemanship
                                      Eventing
                                      "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

                                      So, the Zen Buddhist says to the hotdog vendor, "Make me one with everything."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Ya know, when I saw Clinton Anderson willing to try jumping for the first time and do a decent job really, I thought, "wow, maybe I've been too hard on this guy"... THEN he did his one-rein stop/hyperflexion crap and I, too, was screaming at the tv. First of all, the horse did not accelerate when Stephen was riding, only when Clinton was jumping on his own and rushing to the fences. Then to jerk the poor horse around inside the grid exercise, ugh... recipe for disaster... poor Stephen... poor horse!

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