• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Ride a great horse with a terrible coach?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ride a great horse with a terrible coach?

    I have recently been given the opportunity to ride a talented young horse in the 2010 season. The mare has has pro-training from Day 1 and in her first season eventing placed in the top 5 (ridden by pro) in every event she went to at the P-T level.

    The owner/coach want her to do P-T then T this year, and both (owner is a family member of mine) think I would be very successful with this horse.

    My problem is the coach. While he a former Olympian, and a very well-regarded coach, he is also extremely "tough" on his riders. For example, owner was taking lessons last year (a small, slightly nervous AA on a big, young horse) and coach kept pushing her and pushing her to repeat an exercise over a series of fences..... finally owner was exhausted, mistakes were made, and there was a fall and owner broke her wrist. He is just not someone you can say "No" to.

    Owner wants horse to continue with coach, because obviously coach has many successful students. I have ridden regularly with coach when I was younger and don't remember him being "that bad" however now I am a good 10+ years older and a lot more cautious then I was before!

    My only other options is to keep plugging away with my current horse, who has not seen a show ring in almost 3 years due to on/off soundness. However, I can use the local UL coach I really like riding with, even if we don't actually get to compete.

    What would you do?

  • #2
    Take a couple of lessons with this coach and see what you think. It doesn't sound like this coach was necessarily "terrible" in the past for you. You can always try and say no thanks. It would be a shame to pass on the opportunity without giving it a try.
    Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Based on what you posted, I'd pass.

      A bad or even a good coach that is a mismatch for you can do alot more harm then they can do you any good.

      In my case, I cliniced with a leading and very well known GP rider/trainer at the time. Yeah, I did the excercise. Finally after about 10 tries-it was a big coop off a very forward bending 8 stride line landing what seemed like head on into the wall in a tiny indoor.

      Supposedly it was an adjustability drill to open up and then shut down and balance into that tight corner. I did not feel any sense of accomplishment, I was scared. Way overfaced me and right at the top of the horse's ability. And he berated me repeatedly for not pressing hard enough to that coop in the corner....me at age 45 and the old Hunter in late teens.

      I STILL get scared sometimes riding a diagonal with an oxer out right into a tight corner-so what did that prove? It's been 15 years for gosh sakes but bad memories can be hard to shake.

      One thing to push the envelope a little to build confidence but another to badger and berate in the name of pushing out of the comfort zone. Look what happens.

      No, you will more likely end up dreading your lessons then looking forward to them. There are lots of horses.
      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd grab it! You may or may not be able to work with the coach. I have worked with many different instructors, and what I have learned over the years, is speak up. Talk to the intructors. Some of them don't want to hear from a rider, are just overbearing, my way or the highway types of people, but I think many of them are happy to help you sort out your individual needs and concerns, and that is what they are there for, to help. The best intructors I've worked with are ready to recognize that horses are individuals, as are riders, and some things work better than other things, and that it pays off to adjust the approach to find what works best. To go into a situation expecting the worst, sets everybody up for a bad experience and to avoid because of preconcieved ideas can prevent you from acheiving your goals. Give it your best shot, and if it doesn't work, then walk away.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sunhawk View Post
          I'd grab it! You may or may not be able to work with the coach. I have worked with many different instructors, and what I have learned over the years, is speak up. Talk to the intructors. Some of them don't want to hear from a rider, are just overbearing, my way or the highway types of people, but I think many of them are happy to help you sort out your individual needs and concerns, and that is what they are there for, to help. The best intructors I've worked with are ready to recognize that horses are individuals, as are riders, and some things work better than other things, and that it pays off to adjust the approach to find what works best. To go into a situation expecting the worst, sets everybody up for a bad experience and to avoid because of preconcieved ideas can prevent you from acheiving your goals. Give it your best shot, and if it doesn't work, then walk away.
          Exactly! One good thing I've gotten from getting older (ok, OLD!) is I'm not as self conscious as I used to be. I don't have a problem speaking up, or even saying no, to an instructor if I feel like the exercise is beyond our comfort zone. You can still be respectful, and not argumentative. Not all instructors are the same with each of their students either. Just like a good trainer doesn't ride each horse the same way.
          "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd say at least give the new opportunity a try. The coach not being a good fit for the owner does not neccessarily mean that he couldn't end up working well for you. Make sure you go into the situation with an open mind!

            Is there a reason that the owner/family member is oppossed to using the UL trainer you say that you are happy with? I'd encourage them to consider that route as well, especially if they are describing their own coach as terrible.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Alternate Realityyy View Post
              Owner wants horse to continue with coach, because obviously coach has many successful students. I have ridden regularly with coach when I was younger and don't remember him being "that bad" however now I am a good 10+ years older and a lot more cautious then I was before!
              It sounds like you didn't witness the accident, and are relying upon the rider's account. I think you might also consider that since you have a history with this coach that he might be OK for you. Or not. The only way to know is to try.

              I'd give it a try, and if you're being pushed out of your comfort zone in a way that feels unsafe, then walk away.

              I'll say that my favorite coach was terrific about being able to see my mistakes before I made them, and correct me before I got into trouble, which gave me tremendous confidence.
              If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

              Comment


              • #8
                I find if you both talk to each other then you can overcome many difficulties. I spend probably half my lesson talking asking questions and asking how things can be changed. I think if you are there willing to soak up information trainers really like it and will work with you better. My current trainer has a rep as a dragon but I really like her as she wants improvement and I want to get it.
                The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Can you go watch a couple of his lessons first? This might jog your memory of your own experiences and put them in perspective with who you are now.

                  If you decide to try it, just leave yourself an out in cas you decide it just isn't right for you. No need to burn bridges. Good Luck.

                  SCFarm
                  The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

                  www.southern-cross-farm.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "Terrible coach" seems a little overstated, given even your own description of the person. I agree, try it.
                    Also, can you not continue to ride your own horse with the coach you like and ride the family's horse with this other person?
                    Riding with two coaches can be confusing or can be super helpful. He may use language that makes sense to you or focus on something helpful that your regular coach has overlooked.
                    I evented just for the Halibut.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also, you're an adult (I think) if you had this guy 10 years ago. You can say. "Please don't talk to me like that. It's clearly not working. Can we approach this another way."

                      Sometimes trainers need to be managed because they can be bullies. But if you stand up to them they will generally back off. They do need to make a living (usually!)

                      Remember you're the one writing the cheque.
                      ==================
                      Somehow my inner ten year old seems to have stolen my chequebook!

                      http://reriderandpony.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree that "terrible" doesn't sound accurate...

                        I know many AAs that get talked into doing things they are very scared of because they don't SAY anything. Lots of ladies just nod, swallow and try again, and again, and again. If you stop, say, "I have a question..." and talk it over. Most likely the trainer will be appreciative. Trainers are not mind readers . sometimes they need some feedback that isn't just blank stares.

                        If I were you I would definitely do it (if you like riding the horse and there are clear "rules" about everything). Sounds like an invaluable experience.
                        Yes, I ride a pony. No, he would not be ideal for your child. No, he is not a re-sale project...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree you should give it a try. Take a couple lessons and if you don't like the way they teach then walk away. You never know you might be a better fit with this trainer then the owner was.
                          Mosmom

                          http://photobucket.com/albums/f45/ksox/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'd give it a try, especially since you have some sort of "history" to go on. Maybe try a 1mo trial period to see if it works for all of you. Can't really hurt, and you may find that you are a great fit. Who knows until you try.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I thought by "terrible" you meant incompetent-no, you mean more like Ivan the Terrible. All other things being positive I would certainly give this guy a trial. Back in the day he didn't bother you, you are describing a bad event that happened to somebody else (even if it was a family member).
                              Best of luck.
                              Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                              Incredible Invisible

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Try to maintain the attitude that you are paying him; he is not paying you. Therefore, you have the right to pleasantly explain to him what you would like. You can start the lesson by explaining that you would like to stick with lower fences, or that you would prefer to not jump over 3'6" or whatever it is that you feel you need. If he says that he would like you jumping a grid of mis-spaced 4' oxers followed by a roll back turn to a 4'6" skinny over a liverpool, it is your job to speak up. Explain that safety and fun are important to you at this stage of your life, so that isn't what you plan to do.

                                Try a few lessons and you will know if you can make this work.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Like many others have said, give it a try and see how it works out. Just because your friend wasn't comfortable with the coaching doesn't mean you won't do famously. Also, don't be afraid to speak up and say something if you are not comfortable with what you are being asked to do.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    If you're a "small, slightly nervous AA" you might not do well with The Olympian. Otherwise, you may do fine. If you're not willing to speak up for yourself and say "no" to a coach who's pushing you, then maybe it won't be a great fit. If you know this about yourself already, I'd pass. If not, give it a go.
                                    Click here before you buy.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X