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Claims regarding representing the U.S. Internationally

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  • Claims regarding representing the U.S. Internationally

    Is it just me or does anyone else find it inappropriate at best (a bit fraudulent at worst) for riders to claim that the "are going to be on the 2012 Olympic Team" (or WEG or Pan American team, etc) in their fundraising literature, websites, etc?. I'm not talking about riders who talk as "hopefuls" or show their qualifications, etc, I'm talking about making outright claims or dancing around the wording to make it sound like they already have their team gear issued and the red coat on the way.

    For those of us who understand the process, it is little more than an annoyance, but we are talking about soliciting funds from people who may not realize that:

    1) Those teams are picked very close to the actual event

    2) While this rider has riden at the upper levels they have NOT yet completed a four star event

    3) They have no international experience are unlikely to be chosen

    Normally, I would wish these riders well with the very daunting task of competing at the upper levels and finding a way to pay for it, and I tend to want to support those that are new on the international scene, but this feels wrong to me and I have seen it more and more recently.

    I know that fundraising is an art and you have to be positive to get people on board, but there is nothing worse than crossing the line into misinformation and frankly, dishonesty.
    Last edited by SevenDogs; Dec. 21, 2009, 04:23 PM.

  • #2
    Highly inappropriate. Who is doing that?

    It doesn't bother me, though, for a rider to say they have been on "the" short list*, or that they've been on "the" training list, "the" developing riders list, etc.
    Those lists change so frequently that I don't expect people to only brag about it when they currently (like this month and last!) are on it. Being named to one of those lists does indicate you've achieved a certain stature within the sport, so getting there temporarily helps back up the fact that you are a decent rider.

    *It cracks me up when people use being long-listed as a credential. I've yet to see someone call him or herself a long-listed rider AND explain exactly what that means (ie, how non-exclusive the long list actually is).
    I evented just for the Halibut.

    Comment


    • #3
      Who are you referring too? You speak about "dancing around the wording" Let us check out the websites.....

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        NeverTime: Sending you a PM because I don't want to name names on this board (although I probably should).

        I also completely agree with everything else you said!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NeverTime View Post
          Highly inappropriate. Who is doing that?

          It doesn't bother me, though, for a rider to say they have been on "the" short list*, or that they've been on "the" training list, "the" developing riders list, etc.
          Those lists change so frequently that I don't expect people to only brag about it when they currently (like this month and last!) are on it. Being named to one of those lists does indicate you've achieved a certain stature within the sport, so getting there temporarily helps back up the fact that you are a decent rider.

          *It cracks me up when people use being long-listed as a credential. I've yet to see someone call him or herself a long-listed rider AND explain exactly what that means (ie, how non-exclusive the long list actually is).

          While it *is* a long list, it is still a credential. Years ago there were only about 100 people on it. I have no idea how long the list is today or even what the criteria are, but you used to have to complete a long format **.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gry2Yng View Post
            While it *is* a long list, it is still a credential. Years ago there were only about 100 people on it. I have no idea how long the list is today or even what the criteria are, but you used to have to complete a long format **.
            and if you look at the BN, N, T, P, I, A, **, ***, **** stats-- completing a CCI** is somewhat exclusive.
            http://kaboomeventing.com/
            http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
            Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Yes, "long listed" is an accomplishment but I do agree with NT that without an explanation, "Long Listed for the Olympic Games" sounds like the rider was really, really close to being named to a team and may be misleading to beginning students/outsiders who don't understand the process.

              That being said, I have no true objection to someone using it in their literature, as long as it is accurate, although I would tend to give more credence to the actual level, i.e. "successfully competed through the CCI** level".

              I do not believe that is the standard for the "Long List" any longer, but I could be wrong.

              Comment


              • #8
                i believe the credentials for being on the "long list" are a CIC** or CCI**... or maybe its 2 CIC**s... i do know that per date you do not have to have completed a CCI**

                Regardless its still a credential and worthy of noting for any rider.
                Courtney Sendak
                www.defyinggravityeventing.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's a tangent, but yes, being long-listed just means you've completed events at the ** level. Of course that's an accomplishment, but not among those who have done it. Everyone within the eventing world knows 3/4 of the "long list" will never represent the US in competition... heck, they'll never even win a three-day, they're just riders who had nice enough horses or enough perseverence to make it to the ** level.
                  So even though it's completely within your right to say you're long-listed, my opinion when I see that on a rider's Website is that they're trying to make themselves sound like a bigger deal than they actually are. Maybe it's not fair, but it makes me more likely to see them as a self-important BS'er and less likely to want to give money.
                  Or, to put it more simply, if you've got better credentials than being long-listed (ie, you've won some major events, you've been named to YR teams, whatever) list them on your Website and let the BS long-listed thing disappear like the BS college job you delete from your resume once you have enough legitimate work experience to fill it.

                  - NeverTime, "long-listed" rider who has never finished remotely near the ribbons at a three-day.
                  I evented just for the Halibut.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Seven Dogs: Can you send me a PM too please??

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Can you PM me too please?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In theory every horse who finishes a ** has a shot at making a "short list".

                        In reality, It's Complicated.

                        Been there. Going there again should the stars align....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Like the trainer in Oregon who states in his PR that he "rode for the USET"? He rode in a developing rider session in the early 80's.

                          tulkas

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NeverTime View Post
                            It's a tangent, but yes, being long-listed just means you've completed events at the ** level. Of course that's an accomplishment, but not among those who have done it. Everyone within the eventing world knows 3/4 of the "long list" will never represent the US in competition... heck, they'll never even win a three-day, they're just riders who had nice enough horses or enough perseverence to make it to the ** level.
                            So even though it's completely within your right to say you're long-listed, my opinion when I see that on a rider's Website is that they're trying to make themselves sound like a bigger deal than they actually are. Maybe it's not fair, but it makes me more likely to see them as a self-important BS'er and less likely to want to give money.
                            Or, to put it more simply, if you've got better credentials than being long-listed (ie, you've won some major events, you've been named to YR teams, whatever) list them on your Website and let the BS long-listed thing disappear like the BS college job you delete from your resume once you have enough legitimate work experience to fill it.

                            - NeverTime, "long-listed" rider who has never finished remotely near the ribbons at a three-day.
                            Wow! Gry2yng - "long listed" rider who has never finished remotely near the ribbons at a three day but knows how hard I worked to get there and that it is an exceptional achievement. I'm proud of it and I have respect for others who have achieved the same. I know there are plenty of riders with their pinque coats who were proud of me then and are proud of me today.

                            ETA: At the time, when I was in the thick of it, I think it was a credential to make note of for those who might want to support someone up and coming. You promote the best you have and then you hope to achieve more. Sometimes you achieve more, sometimes you don't. That's different than touting a credential that you don't have. It also means I might have something to offer to others in terms of experience.

                            E again TA: And to my employer, to whom I gave 60 hours a week, it was a nice achievement and made them feel good about the crazy schedule they allowed me in order to reach that goal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is the long list even around anymore?

                              Looking at the USEA website, all I can find is a High Performance A and B squad lists, developing riders list, etc...

                              Where can you find this "long list"?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                You used to have to complete a CCI 2*. Then they sent you a packet saying that you have made it to the long list, and you were supposed to fill out all the forms, and then send them $300??? if you wanted the selectors to keep an eye on you. I was listed, it is an accomplishment. I had also finished a CCI 3* the same year, but there was no way I was ever going to take that horse to anything more that what I had already done with him.
                                So for me I could not afford, nor wanted to send off money for something that would ever happen.
                                But I gotta say it was so terribly cool to get that packet in the mail.
                                One thing that bothers me the most is when people(trainers really) list that they are a 2* or 3* rider when they did not complete the event, and not for reasons such as not passing the final jog, but for getting eliminated on X-C. That is my pet peeve.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Here's MY pet peeve. People who refer to having completed a CCI** as something really big, hard, important. NOWadays, a (**) is nothing more than an Intermediate level horse trial. When a (**) was a full format 3-day event, it WAS a big accomplishment. Now? Sure, it takes work and dedication but even I have 3 seasons of Intermediate under my belt.
                                  Plus, all you have to do is compete at Bromont to be "competing internationally" or "representing the USA".
                                  Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Wow. Bad form. VERY bad form. (OP's statement)

                                    I too have been to a developing riders session (invited and by the "ahem" coach at the time) and at one time might have been long listed but that list doesn't exist anymore, guys. I would never consider myself anything other than a low level rider.

                                    The developing rider lists change frequently it seems and there is an A and B from what I understand and has been previously mentioned. I too believe there is no such thing any more as a "long list".

                                    Sometimes however the websites are done by people who are employees or hired PR people, and the actual rider may not know this is being stated this way. I am always a little forgiving about websites with top riders because I know how busy they are and how little attention they pay to the internet. I didn't PM the OP and have no idea who she is talking about, I'm just sayin'.
                                    Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                                    Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I have seen this behavior before. A certain BNR was promoting himself as going to the Olympics. He was on the "list" but hard to successfully complete the final outings. It's been a while so I don't quite remember all the details why he didn't complete the final outings but the BNR in question did not complete Rolex so he gave it one more try so he then went on the Checkmate CCI*** and didn't complete that either. However that did not prevent him from having articles in the local papers saying that he was going to the Olympics and having $200 a plate fund raising dinners after he was OUT of the running to be on the 'team' going to the Olympics.

                                      It's hard to believe that someone would have the balls to do something like this when he knew that there was NO possibility that he was going to the Olympics. It takes all kinds

                                      Jackie

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I know someone that lists they were long listed and what year in some of their write-ups, credentials, etc. In actuality, the only reason that rider wasn't on the short list was because they made a judgment call after the vet check before the official short list was announced and pulled out. Given some other factors with this particular rider and that it was during the long format era, it is quite the accomplishment.

                                        Comment

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