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Le Samuri Accident Video

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  • #21
    hmm...just watched the video. I am definitely not Amy Tryon or anything NEAR a **** rider but looking at the video, my first thought was, "I wouldn't have pulled up either. There just was not enough time and he did seem to get better after a couple strides and switching leads."

    Jingles for Amy and Le Samuri.


    • #22
      I'm not an eventer so don't normally poke my nose in here but the video caught my attention.

      Folks: Let's not Shoot Our Own Wounded.

      Jingles for Amy and Le Samurai.
      <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.


      • #23
        As I posted in the other thread, I was there and saw the whole thing from across a field (by the vet box). It was hard to tell what happened, but I could still tell something was not right. Seeing it up close on the video, it is much more obvious.....

        To those who say he looks a lot better once he headed toward the fence and switched leads, it is probably because switching to the left lead took some of the pressure of the injured right foreleg. You can see that after he initially trips he tries several times to pick up the left lead (instead of the more painful right lead) several times before Amy gives up and lets him go on the incorrect (left) lead. But even on the left lead he still looks pretty bad to me.
        The hardest to learn was the least complicated.


        • #24
          She had plenty of time to pull up, the horse tried to pull itself up.

          Do any of you have any idea how painful rupturing your ligaments is? It's not like cutting yourself or pulling a muscle, it's excrutiating. The horse did not lock onto the fence, it's ears were back, she rode him on into the fence and continued to ride him on over the line. He looked slightly more comfortable in right lead canter but ANY rider would have felt he was seriously lame.

          In racing the horse would have been pulled up immediately, no doubt about that. Why should it be different in eventing? Adrenaline is a strong feeling but it was a serious error on Amy's part to carry on. Yes, no doubt she regrets it now but that isnt good enough, its too late for the horse.

          I've never seen anything like this in eventing and I'm sorry, but the FEI must come down hard on her. It is unacceptable at any level, especially 4*


          • #25
            [QUOTE=Bossanova;2398168]She had plenty of time to pull up, the horse tried to pull itself up.

            Do any of you have any idea how painful rupturing your ligaments is? It's not like cutting yourself or pulling a muscle, it's excrutiating. The horse did not lock onto the fence, it's ears were back, she rode him on into the fence and continued to ride him on over the line. He looked slightly more comfortable in right lead canter but ANY rider would have felt he was seriously lame.

            In racing the horse would have been pulled up immediately, no doubt about that. Why should it be different in eventing? Adrenaline is a strong feeling but it was a serious error on Amy's part to carry on. Yes, no doubt she regrets it now but that isnt good enough, its too late for the horse.

            I totally agree Bossanova. I have restrained myself from commenting, but after having watched the replay of the video, it is very clear that this horse didn't "lock on" to the fence at all. You can see Amy's arms flailing trying to encourage him to go forward. He had tried to break into a trot before he even rounded the corner. The lock on business is a bunch of BS being fed to everyone by Mark and her husband. How come he wasn't pulled up immediately after jumping the last fence? The poor horse had to cross the finish flags before he could be pulled up.

            I hope he is going to be able to at least live a peaceful life in a field somewhere. My heart breaks for this horse.


            • #26
              I didn't get to watch the webcast, so until I saw the Youtube video I waited to comment. I have ridden at the **** level and know what it feels like when a horse is game and wants to jump the fences, that being said, Amy's horse was clearly stressed from the injury. His gait was VERY uneven, even after switching leads. There is no way Amy couldn't feel that. It also was far enough away from the last fence to pull him up, despite what Captain Phillips says. I am sure in hindsight, Amy would have reacted differently, but for them to try to jusify her decisions by claiming that she couldn't feel it or he was to close to the last fence is just wrong! IMO.


              • #27
                It was VERY clear that:

                the horse was not right

                there was PLENTY of time to SAFELY pull up

                the horse was NOT locked on to the fence

                She was actually DRIVING the horse on

                And did anyone notice that she looked surprised to see all come running to her at the end

                I have been here...I know when to pull up...I am sure she does as well...but CHOSE not to for her own reasons. Reasons she will have to answer too and live with.

                Take her name out of the equation...just watch the video...ANY rider would know that this was serious from the first step.

                I have ridden horses that stumbled, pulled a shoe, knocked himself etc...but knew fairly early on if I should continue or not.

                Surely she must have known to pull up and didn't.

                I do not appreciate the spin put on this incident by either Mark or Amy's husband. Mark has been known to make some bad choices so I do not believe alot of what comes out of his mouth.


                • #28
                  Before watching the video and reading the comments defending Amy's ride, I thought I would see a horse stumble a little a few strides from the jump and recover soundly to jump. That is not the case at all.

                  It looks like the horse was switching from right to left lead when the injury occurred. There are at least 30 strides from the bobble until the jump. The horse was not going 25 mph while trotting and swapping leads and could have been pulled up. The horse did not see the jump until they got to the bend in the course and at no point rode soundly. I agree he didn't lock onto the jump. He did his job, what was unfairly asked of him.

                  Jingles for Le Samuri, it's obvious he's has the hugest of hearts.

                  I am glad there will be an FEI inquiry.
                  Accuracy is the twin brother of honesty; inaccuracy, of dishonesty.
                  Nathaniel Hawthorne


                  • #29
                    Its a hard call and I am glad I didnt have to make it. I know Amy, she is nothing but about first rate care for her horses. To say that she had time, well thats another hard call.

                    I've never ridden a 4 star horse but I've seen plenty go. Sparky is a very strong horse, very strong. Once they get that jump in sight, it takes all you can to pull up, if you can at all safely, before the jump.

                    To me, it also looked like he caught a shoe, was recovering. and from the time line others posted, I seriously do not think anyone else could have pulled their horses up in time NOT to jump that fence and stay safe.

                    My heart goes out to Amy and her team.


                    • #30
                      come on people, i have had experience with riding at a *** level, and let me tell you most horses do not "lock on" to fences once they are tired and near the end of a course, they tend to look flat and semi-uninterested. Amy in my eyes did nothing wrong. I've seen horses act that uncomfortable because they overreached and ripped their shoe off badly, but if that was the case she probably would've kicked herself for not jumping the last fence, it was a split second decision, and it *doesn't* change the fact that the horse suffered a life-changing injury regardless of whether she jumped the fence or not. If you're going to attack anything, attack the nature of the sport, not just an individual player. If that was the case, let's go after all people that didn't know their horse was tying up on course and jumped 5 fences before pulling up, or that had a suspensory injury they didn't find out about until the next day, etc. Let's have a little compassion for her and her horse's situation, it is a devastating situation for both of them
                      Katie https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...milies/cry.gif


                      • #31
                        She had to come round a corner to present...the horse was LAME...she had plenty of time!!!!!! In the horse's best interest she should have NEVER turned the corner...period.


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by snoopy View Post
                          She had to come round a corner to present...the horse was LAME...she had plenty of time!!!!!! In the horse's best interest she should have NEVER turned the corner...period.
                          Totally agree- she didnt need to turn him towards the fence.
                          4* horses are trained to jump whats in front of them, they dont spot it from around a corner and run to it as the complexity of a 4* means there are often black flag elements in your path so they wait to be told what to go and jump.


                          • #33
                            She didn't leap off the moment he landed. She finished the course, brought him down to the trot, and THEN leaped off.

                            I'm trying very hard not to be judgmental. I'm sure it felt as though he'd pulled a shoe or something, but he was SO lame...
                            Click here before you buy.


                            • #34
                              I totally agree with Midge and Bossonova-although I hardly ever post and am not in the business of being critical after the fact-I had to post....I gallop racehorses for a living and have competed for years in combined training, I was there in person (to witness everyone screaming for Amy to pull up) and I am having a HUGE hardtime trying to understand/be compassionate for Amy Tryon. Even if he did pull a shoe or something so minor-if it caused him to be that sore-why wouldn't she pull him up regardless???? OK-maybe she didn't have the luxury of seeing it(obviously since she was riding) but with that many people telling her to pull-why would you doubt what you can't see but can feel? I don't care if you are at the finish-save for another day. When we are galloping/breezing racehorses-you ALWAYS have it in your mind to be mindful of how the horse is feeling-every stride-one tiny mistep-and YOU PULL UP!!! After watching that video-there is NO way you can convince me that she could not have pulled up sooner-that is a load of crap-I'm sorry. And when she does jump the fence-you can see a few strides out that she digs down and sends him on-hardly a horse that is so locked in on it that she can't stop him. I also might add-there have been comparisons in quotes of this situation to the one with Barbaro in the Preakness. Edgar Prado had a hard time pulling up Barbaro because he had JUST broke out of the gate with a group of horse-and he had to be tactful to ease him up to not cause a wreck. Amy was galloping ALONE on a tired horse with a loop in the reins-and when she did ask him to pull up-he was more than happy to ablige and slammed on the brakes. All I can say is that she is a very lucky girl that that horse did not go down with her especially landing on the back side of that HUGE fence. It is of no use to be critical just to be mean...however these riders are the upper crust of this sport and the decisions they make are an example to everyone and they have that responsibilty to the sport-their sponsors, to everyone watching and MOST IMPORTANTLY-THE HORSE. Sometimes your decisions whether they be right or wrong-come with consequences and and if you are not held responsible for them-what stops the next person from thinking twice about it all-these horse put their lives on the line for us in this level of competition and they need to be protected at all costs. Lets just hope and pray that that horse makes it because he is a hero-period.


                              • #35
                                looking at it from as person whose seen more breakdowns in racing than eventing (although I compete dressage and used to compete in eventing). It's very hard to pull a horse up in that much forward motion, let alone jam the breaks on and risk further injury.

                                The first seconds of film it looked like he slipped and caught a shoe. Being there, the sod was extremely water jammed in certain places so I can see that happening. But after the jump there was something very wrong, and she did the right thing. It was her call. She made it.

                                Now the people of youtube are bashing her brains out for it. It's easy to say you're going to do something in a situation, when you're not in the situation, but its much different when you're there.

                                I support her, and hope everyone in the parties turn out alright.
                                It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by tempichange View Post
                                  But after the jump there was something very wrong, and she did the right thing. It was her call. She made it.
                                  I could only bring myself to watch the video once, but it looked to me like she kept going after the last jump and crossed the finish line before dismounting....?


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by SBClancy View Post
                                    And I think after all the publicity about this that she should definitely make some kind of statement. If she doesn't then that would lead me to believe she knew there was a problem and didn't do anything about it immediately.
                                    She did make a statement, and said all she could say. This is a legal investigation, if only sports law and not *real* law. I don't think it would be fair to her to expect her to incriminate herself in the judicial proceeding, especially now when she is surely so acutely upset. When the time comes the tribunal's report--including her "testimony"--will be published by the FEI.
                                    "See I hope to IMPROVE humanity as a whole and yet feel lost on this forum."


                                    • #38
                                      Ok, for everyone here who sounds ready to jump Amy and beat her...

                                      How many of you have been out on XC and never had your horse bang itself or take a funny step? I know I have. Your first instinct is to pull up (which it looks like Amy considered) and then you say, well I'll just give it a couple strides to see if he just banged himself. Le Samurai tripped, it's not like he about ripped his leg off over a fence, and Amy probably just thought he pulled a shoe or nicked his leg or something else like that. She trotted for a second, and when she picked the canter back up the horse is VISIBLY better. Still lame, but better. I'm sure Amy thought it was no big deal, that the horse was fine and just a little ouchy. Who are we to say exactly how the horse felt to her? They were both tired, they were at the last fence at Rolex for God's sakes, I'm sure there was a lot of adrenaline. And remember, hindsight is 20/20. If it turned out he was that visibly lame but had only stepped on a clip on his shoe this thread would not be here! And let's assume for a second that she KNEW something was seriously wrong. Do you all honestly think she would have jumped the last fence? For what purpose? If she knew he was seriously injured then she knew he wouldn't be able to complete event anyway and somehow I doubt anyone in the situation would bother jumping the last effort. I think it's obvious she didn't realize the severity of the injury, and I think it's completely arrogant for any of us to say we would have realized it in her situation.
                                      "A dog looks up to a man, a cat looks down on a man but a patient horse looks a man in the eye and sees him as an equal."

                                      "It is the difficult horses that have the most to give you." - Lendon Gray


                                      • #39
                                        How many of you have galloped a tired, well trained and extremely fit Thoroughbred down to a Rolex fence at that level?

                                        I haven't. But I have galloped a tired, well trained and extremely fit horse down to a fence, had the horse trip and have to make that split second evaluation. Was that a shoe? Is she too tired to jump? Is she injured? You're pumping with adrenalin yourself--your ears are roaring because you are just as exhausted as your horse, your breathing and his breathing are loud enough together but then add in the crowd on the final fence. If you clucked to your horse, and said, "Hey buddy, you alright?" and he picked up a new lead and cantered on, you would think "Alright, minus a shoe but he seems game enough".

                                        I can't speculate about what Amy was thinking down to that last fence, but I can speculate about what would have gone through my head. Clipping off a shoe at that speed could be a bit of a shock--he IS thoroughbred and he might have been a little more sensitive to that. But on the other hand, once she made that turn, she nearly HAD to jump that fence. There's NO way that she was going to stop him SAFELY in time before that fence.

                                        Even after, she shook her reins, "Hey buddy", but he didn't respond. She was not pushing this horse on. She clearly takes off her leg, stops her seat, closes her hand and tries to safely bring the horse back.

                                        If you yank a horse up from 500 plus m/m, you can do MORE damage that way. She could not tell from sitting on his back WHAT he did, she only knew that he was hurting. The safest thing for her to do is pull up as carefully as she could without frightening the horse, making him trip again, go backwards, go up, or hurt himself further.

                                        Did she have the time to pull her horse up before the fence? Yes, I think she did. And trust me, that's going to haunt her for awhile. A long while. That horse's career is over. She's devastated by this, I am sure. She's nothing but a horsewoman, like the rest of us.

                                        But she couldn't have known it was this bad. I think many other riders would have done the same thing. It looked like a thrown shoe to me and maybe him clipping himself. It didn't look like his entire leg fell apart, or anything career ending.

                                        Jingles for Samurai and Amy.


                                        • #40
                                          I have not posted on this board in months and months, but I have to comment here.

                                          The youtube video is disgusting. The horse was not galloping at 25mph (in fact, he trotted multiple times). He did not "sight in" on that fence. There was no risk of a crash. She kicked that very clearly broken and distressed horse right down to it. She had more than enough time to know he was broken, and in no way does that look like a horse that grabbed his heel or a shoe.

                                          I'll armchair quarterback and second-guess her decision. She made a huge mistake.

                                          Oh, and for those who keep saying he's a TB, he's not. He's 1/2 Holsteiner.