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Eventing prospect, what do you think?

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  • Eventing prospect, what do you think?

    I am 16 (almost 17) years old and am currently making plans for my horse to be humanly euthanized. I bought her to hopefully, at least, take to training level and get my C1, C2 and hopefully my C3 on in Pony Club as. While I am in the same boat as many kids today that have the talent, guts, and determination to make it to the top, I also don't have the money. Fortunately I have a great trainer who has opened her door to me "literally", and an amazing grandfather that is doing all that he can to help me get there. But I am still out a horse and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. I am lucky enough to have found a possible horse for me, but at 5k he is quite a bit more than we can spend, his owner is willing to be neg and hopefully let us make payments. The down side is that he is a roarer and did so as a 2 year old on the track, to my knowledge he hasnt done so since.
    Fozzy is a 17.1hh bay OTTB gelding, and 8yrs old. He has free jumped up to 5ft with ease (http://www.youtube.com/user/epinoiatyree11, this is him as I believe 2 years ago) Since then he has shown through 3rd Level Jumpers, Preliminary combined tests, and has been low jumper reserve champ in '08 in the local show circuit. He is also schooling 1st level dressage. He could easily take me to my A rating in pony club and probably go advanced in eventing. The only reason they are selling him is because her son lost interest. Tell me what you think, is he something to look into some more, will roaring be problem?
    Thanks in advance!
  • Original Poster

    Here is his pedigree:


    • #3
      If he is a roarer...that can be an issue for eventing. Best thing is have a vet look at him and possibly scope him.

      Sorry about your other horse and hope that you can find a new partner. Listen to what your trainer thinks and a good vet.
      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **


      • #4
        His sire Lord Avie is first class. Can't tell anything about him conf wise in that video, he is too furry and never stands still. He has scope.


        • #5
          How is he doing Preliminary combined tests if he is only schooling 1st level dressage?

          That aside, roaring can be a problem in eventing even at the lower levels. One of my students had to have surgery on her Novice horse, a roarer, because when asked to go on the bit he could barely breathe and he would freak out. A couple grand later, he's fine, but she's always worried about aspirating feed and such.....

          Third Charm Event Team


          • #6
            I'm not a huge fan of his form over fences. He really seems to drop his knees. And you don't think its a bit soon to be claiming him as an advanced prospect?


            • #7
              I'm sorry to hear about your mare.

              And very sympathetic to your situation as a similar thing happened to me around your age and I understand that trying to find something fairly close to event-ready on a shoestring is always a challenging compromise.

              As others have said, roaring can be an issue for eventing, in some cases, and a vet would probably have to see him to make that determination.

              It's hard to see much in the video.

              My one concern, just from my own horse shopping experience, would be that a horse with as much show experience as claimed should at least be able to be shown ridden/jumping under saddle, and probably has a some cute show pics of him in shape, competing.

              I am always surprised by how few sale horse competition claims check out--the jumper record you should at least be able to get on USEF if you know his show name or his rider.


              • #8
                I caution you to be a little more realistic- I don't see anything in that video that would make me think of him as an advanced prospect, but videos don't show everything. I would want to see pictures/video of him more in shape and in competition. Check his records. If he shows that much, you should be able to talk to a third party about his performance.
                And finally, I know that money is an issue but do not skimp on his pre-vet exam, and getting his roaring checked out.


                • #9
                  I hate to say this because I have a horse with every problem you can think of (cribber, headshaker, kissing spines, etc) some of which I knew about when I got him (cribbing).

                  However, I wouldn't buy a horse with breathing issues and hope it would be an upper level prospect. Breathing problems can become degenerative or more serious quickly. I had an OTTB who's breathing became so badly she had to be put down only a few months after she came off the track.

                  This is a great economy for a buyer... I'd keep looking

                  good luck!
                  http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn


                  • #10
                    Roaring can be a major problem in eventing. I have also found, atleast IME, that most horses that are roarers also are bleeders. You would need to get him scoped. The video just shows a blurry fuzzy horse that will try to jump a large fence but has a loose front end. Have you seen him school XC? Have you ridden him XC? What level has he schooled XC? Why only CT which don't have XC? You seem to have listed everything but XC in what they tell you about him. You will not know if he is even a lower level event prospect till you get him out on the course. I have had horses that were great dressage horses and great jumpers but were not XC horses, didn't like drops or water etc. Before spending $5,000 on an 8yr that has no events under him, not even a BN I would think twice if I was you.


                    • #11
                      I was also in a similar situation. My horse died when I was 16 and then I ended up with a skinny OTTB who roared. My guy has turned out to be fantastic and the roaring doesn’t bother him very much. But we just do BN/N. For an upper level horse, I would think the tie-back surgery would be a necessity, which is $$ and also has potentially serious side effects. This horse looks cute, but I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing about picking out an nice prospect. Good luck with your search and sorry about your current horse.


                      • #12
                        I will try to say this in the kindest way possible I think you should keep looking for something different, given your goals. He has a weak hind end and I'm not thrilled with his shoulder. If you add that to roaring, I would pass on statistics alone, irregardless of price.

                        Now, if he truly has the show record and stats they claim, he ought to be more than $5k. That is a huge red flag for me. If they are unfamiliar with eventing, is it possible they thought preliminary meant like BN? I know people who have made that error. Anyway, it just doesn't seem to add up. If I liked him a whole lot better in his video, I might track down the cause of the discontinuity, but I don't think it's worth that much effort quite frankly.


                        • #13
                          Agree with TB or not TB.

                          For what it's worth, when I was looking at age 15 for a YR and upper level pony club horse, I found a couple that were totally suitable. It was all about networking.

                          One through an Olympic rider/coach - her student was off to college and the parents didn't want to pay board. He was 11, 16.1 hh black TB gelding, had evented to Pre-Training but shown to 3'9 jumping and a bit more dressage - had done a lot of horse shows. We bought him and I did one Pre-Training then a full season of Training, did a Training 3-day and my B test, the following year moved up to Prelim. Great buy under $5K (mind you that was over 10 years ago) as we were a "good home".

                          One through YR contacts (I had joined my region's YRs and asked the Mums in Charge). Son had gone to NAYRC twice, was going to college, parents wanted horse to have a good home. 12 year old mare, I think she was TB, 16.1hh. They came down on price quite a bit, again for the good home factor. We ended up not getting her (got the other horse above).

                          There are also often good horses available through Pony Club - ask your region's head honcho about clubs in the area. Lots of times there are decent/nice horses who haven't realized their potential yet, but are quiet enough to work with and bring along.

                          Good luck & condolences about the horse you have now.

                          You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


                          • #14
                            If the horse in question has done all of these things, why a 2 year old video. Do they have video of his jumper classes or combined tests. And even if a kid has lost interest 5k is pretty much give away money?
                            To be successful, you have to have your heart in your business, and your business in your heart


                            • Original Poster

                              When I went to get the links to the other videos (of his prelim dressage test, and jumping rounds), they have been taken off. I wasnt too keen on his shoulder either..... Here are some more pics:
                              got down to STILTS


                              • #16
                                While he has a drapey front end over the jumps @ his size that jump was a lope.
                                Its the wind...a big horse w/ supposed nice gaits who is as nice and easy to the jump as him is WAY more than $5K even in this economy.
                                If he Roars, he Roars. Paralyzed or slow/lazy flaps do not get better w/O surgery. He may have a tense throat or a naturally narrow airway and make a slight noise when nervous but if he Roars he Roars. The caveat being he may flip his palate or displace his palate that is something horses overcome or cease when not racing...but not always. Does he make a grunting noise when jumping?? He has to be scoped @ rest and immediately after hard work.
                                Honey I have great emapthy for your situation and where you live its tough. But if you truly have $5K to spend you can buy n vet 2 nice OTTB and ship them for the price.
                                CA C.A.N.T.E.R. has tons for you to go look @ w/ your trainer.
                                While he certainly seems like a very nice horse, I wouldn't put all my eggs in his basket and definately not hitch my advance star to him.


                                • #17
                                  Wow, he is big. And he can jump. I also think his hind end looks weak. But the red flag for me was the description of what he had done and the low price. There is a definite disconnect there. Should you investigate further? Yes, I probably would. Find people (other than the sellers) who are familiar with the horse and what he has done. Watch him be ridden. It doesn't sound like he has gone XC yet. See how he is with water. If you dont' find any skeletons in his closet, before you get too attached, do a thorough vet check. You will have to spend money on this. It will be money well spent. Another possibility may be to try and lease the horse. If the owner is off to college, having someone lease the horse to pay expenses is a good option for the owner. Then you can try to find out what his issues are without paying for a PPE and determine if he is the right horse for you.

                                  But Canter and OTTB's are cheap and in large supply right now. If you have the time to bring one along, I'm sure you can do your ratings with the horse. I didn't get the impression that you were actually looking for an advanced prospect.

                                  I'm very sorry to hear about your current horse.


                                  • #18
                                    I was very prepared not to like him based on his video but I did like him a lot. I suppose I am looking at it a bit differently though because based on that video what we see is a horse that is very out of shape in the middle of winter who seems super sweet and pretty damn cool to be jumping that big of a fence with no real guidance from the groundsperson. Yes, his hind end looks weak but he could just be really out of shape. I liked the shape that he was jumping in nope not the best front end but there are many UL horses without great front ends. He looked drapey but used his body and got plenty of height over the fences so didn't appear he lacked scope. Has a nice stride and seemed like he had good gaits.

                                    Roaring is an issue so have that looked under but it can be very easily fixed for not a lot of money.

                                    I bet there are more videos of this horse when he is actually in shape and I would almost bet he is pretty impressive. I would be taking a look for $5k especially if they are negotiable. Ask to see his record and more current video. Temperament and attitude is half the battle and he looks to have the right qualities to make him very trainable.

                                    I think everyone wants the "perfect horse." I work with CANTER and while I see a lot of nice horses he sounds like he has a lot of mileage and is already quite proven.


                                    • #19
                                      Hey...you know who I am! Rowan's mom! Anyway, look. Not impressed by this horse at all. There is so much better out here for less than this and I think that M. would agree. The challenge with you is finding something tall enough. But, you certainly have the ability to take a young horse or an OTTB along, particularly with her guidance. So, with that in mind, you might turn your focus in that direction. I can tell you how satisfying it has been to bring one along and to see the results of my hard work. Look what I bought for $800!!!! Anyway, keep your eyes open, there are so many really nice horses out there right now for dirt cheap that will get you where you want to go.

                                      "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."-Aristotle


                                      • #20
                                        "The down side is that he is a roarer and did so as a 2 year old on the track, to my knowledge he hasnt done so since."

                                        Once a roarer - always a roarer unless he had the tie back surgery that runs betweem $1500 to $2K. Not good for even a low level eventer.

                                        If you really love this horse, make the owner on offer and get the surgery.
                                        Thoroughbred Training and Sales