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Interesting view point from Boyd

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  • Interesting view point from Boyd

    I am not sure as to how to interpret this comment. Those who did decide to WD did so for the welfare of their horses...That is also to "man-up".


    http://www.eventingnews.com/stories....nal&title=Boyd Martin Claims his First CCI*** Win at Fair Hill International



    "He's a tough mongrel of a horse, a lot of the horses here today were not fancy show ponies - if you saw them as people they'd be barflies", said Martin of the select group of horses that conquered yesterday's cross-country course. "When it comes down to a gladiator style fight, you get the tough horses and riders, the ones who can man up when things aren't perfect."

  • #2
    "He's a tough mongrel of a horse, a lot of the horses here today were not fancy show ponies - if you saw them as people they'd be barflies", said Martin of the select group of horses that conquered yesterday's cross-country course. "When it comes down to a gladiator style fight, you get the tough horses and riders, the ones who can man up when things aren't perfect."

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but he seems to contradict himself. First he says they were NOT fancy show ponies which says to me they were tough and gritty. Then he says they were "bar flies" Not sure what they were???

    Also, I do think to say the ones who "man up" are the toughest (parahrased.) Not the best thing to say.
    RIP Kelly 1977-2007 "Wither thou goest, so shall I"

    "To tilt when you should withdraw is Knightly too."

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I get his point, definitily...BUT...I think that it was wise for those who did not feel the conditions were right for their horses to WD. I do not think it showed lack of "balls" not to run. From what I gather, this was not a bit of drizzle and some slick grass.

      Comment


      • #4
        granted, I'm not riding around these big courses and i don't know how bad the conditions really were, but isn't the point of a three day event to show who has the most "complete" horse. its not just about speed and endurance, but bravery, toughness, and rideability.


        seems like we really are getting a little smarter these days and taking care of ourselves and our horses better, but this risk aversion takes away some of the cowboy in the sport, and with it a little bit of its soul...

        Comment


        • #5
          I think the bar fly comment isn't really complimentary - bar flies are tough gritty, maybe a bit seedy.

          If a rider chose not to take his/her horse around that course we shouldn't fault them. They know their animals and themselves. Some horses are tougher than others. They don't care about weather, footing or conditions. Some horses care greatly and don't like to jump in deep mud, or when the ground is hard - pick your less than ideal condition - but some horses will get out there and get the job done no matter what.

          I think that was his point.

          Comment


          • #6
            The Saturday evening press conference discussed these issues pretty thoroughly.
            http://www.videobypatrick.com/
            It's never WRONG to decide to ride another day, and we should be very careful to NOT CRITICIZE those who run. Brian O'Connor's comment Sunday morning on "the incredible horsemanship" he saw on Saturday was particularly poignant.

            Comment


            • #7
              The *** horse I was grooming for was withdrawn cross country morning. Why did they withdraw, the horse has already ran a 4-star and is qualified for anything she wants to do. We got to the barn Saturday morning to find him up to his fetlocks in standing water. They were not about to risk an injury to him, and they hacked the course to shreds trying to make it safe enough to run anyway. Honestly at that point, why bother. We packed up and got him out of there and he is on his way home. I feel it was definately in the horses best interest to not run and risk injury when he was already standing in his very own water jump in his stall.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't think the comment was disrespectful of those who opted out. Just a statement of the two types of horses and riders he sees in our sport - the old fashioned "gladiators" and the modern short format type "show ponies." Remember what his orientation is - wild wooly Aussie!

                Comment


                • #9
                  The comment really doesn't bother me. He was describing the horses that ran, not the ones that didn't. While I understand why someone reading might jump to that comparison, I doubt it was intended.

                  I don't expect top riders to be particularly good at PR. Boyd by his action demonstrates himself to be a pretty good horseman, unless he actually does something with a horse that shows disregard I'll leave him where he is in my estimation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by flutie1 View Post
                    I don't think the comment was disrespectful of those who opted out. Just a statement of the two types of horses and riders he sees in our sport - the old fashioned "gladiators" and the modern short format type "show ponies." Remember what his orientation is - wild wooly Aussie!

                    I agree. Comeon folks....get a grip. Everyone knows that you make the decision based on what is best for each horse and Boyd wasn't saying anyone decision not to run was wrong....but I did watch a lot of the xc for the *** (didn't watch any of the **)...it was probably on the whole the best group of horses and riders that I've seen at Fair Hill in a few years. Mostly top notch riding and very few problems (compared with typical years).

                    Boyd's horse that won looked like he was just skipping around the course....and I saw him at the back 1/3. I wasn't surprised he made time...he was holding his lines the best of any of the rides which made for a very smooth trip.

                    I'm sure there were pleanty of horses that WD because they didn't need the run but would have been fine....and I'm sure that there were a few that it was a good thing they were WD because even in the best conditions, it would have been iffy to watch them go around. The conditions did weed out some of the riders....in a manner far more effective than any qualifications any governing body will ever come up with.

                    The ones that did go....made the decision that they were ready and the conditions were acceptable (even if not ideal). The footing actually held pretty well but was a bit heavy so the less than really fit horses were tired by the end....but many didn't look tired. You risk injury to your horse any time you run and jump.....and at this level, even more so. The sport has never been one about perfect conditions and perfect footing....although that is ideal....it has always been about doing the prep that you need to for the less than ideal conditions......and then the rider giving the horse the best ride to help them both succeed. And for the most part....that is what I saw...really good riding and well prepared horses riding in not perfect conditions (but not dangerous conditions either).
                    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Oct. 19, 2009, 10:43 AM.
                    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You really had to know your horse to run out there. Everyone who ran, ran it very smart. Most retired after their first problem. Most of the horses that were out there were lighter horses who could handle the mud. The footing actually held up quite decently. Had 1/2 the feild not w/d then that could have been another story.

                      I was suprised they chose to pull so many fences from the course. It watered down both courses a lot, but mostly the **. Why not adjust the time instead o pulling everything off? The ** was much twistier than the ***, but the only combinations left in were the water and the sunken road and the turning question in the ring.

                      There was still a lot of trouble out there for both levels, but the riding was smart and for the most part, the horses of the riders who opted to go looked fantastic. It's about all three phases.

                      Don't get me wrong, I could never have ridden my horse in that, but that's due to the way he is and his past. Everyone makes individual decisions hopefully, and choosing not to run for whatever reason is NEVER a bad idea... however, choosing to run even when the going is not great isn't necessarily a bad one either, depending on the horse.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Personally, I commend every rider who chose to withdraw their horses on CC day. That shows true love of the animal and respect for same if they did not want to risk injuring their horses. I also don't fault those who chose to go for it. My biggest fear was that some young hot dogs would not use sound judgement seeing that they had a shot of placing due to all of the withdraws. Not so. Apparently, most riders rode conservatively and smart.

                        I do wonder how the final placings would have ended up had those who WD chosen to run. Some excellent horse/rider combos chose not to run. Does the fact that almost half of the riders that withdrew their horses before the CC detract/take anything away from the final placing? Would the top ten have been the same? Don't know, as I am a DQ, not an eventer. I admire the courage and heart of the horses that do event, however it is not my thing. Love to go to FH each year to watch though.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Since I did not see the course or the conditions, just wondering if the type of modern course actually makes these conditions more dangerous. With so many combination/cluster jumping efforts where even the smallest of slip could have disasterous results, will we see more elective withdrawls? The old, more straight forward courses and the weather conditions may not have seen so many decide to WD. I think it should be noted that some that I spoke to would have liked to have completed but already had their qualifications for next year and thought it was not worth the risk. I think there are many factors for a decision to withdraw. I believe it is the "man up" comment that did not sit well with me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree. Comeon folks....get a grip. Everyone knows that you make the decision based on what is best for each horse and Boyd wasn't saying anyone decision not to run was wrong....but I did watch a lot of the xc for the *** (didn't watch any of the **)...it was probably on the whole the best group of horses and riders that I've seen at Fair Hill in a few years. Mostly top notch riding and very few problems (compared with typical years).



                            I agree with this comment. It seems someone always has to dissect remarks and try to find something to criticize.
                            Perhaps those folks should find something more constructive to do with their time and energy imo - volunteering, working for a non-profit, you know . . . get a job . . .

                            kcr

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by snoopy View Post
                              Since I did not see the course or the conditions, just wondering if the type of modern course actually makes these conditions more dangerous. With so many combination/cluster jumping efforts where even the smallest of slip could have disasterous results, will we see more elective withdrawls? The old, more straight forward courses and the weather conditions may not have seen so many decide to WD. I think it should be noted that some that I spoke to would have liked to have completed but already had their qualifications for next year and thought it was not worth the risk. I think there are many factors for a decision to withdraw. I believe it is the "man up" comment that did not sit well with me.

                              The *** was a very straight forward *** course...with many of the combinations being removed. The few combinations left in rode best when ridden forward...there were a few accuracy questions...espcially in the holding the lines...and a few just straight forward galloping fences.

                              The "man up" comment was I believe because the conditions SUCKED for the rider more than the horses. It was cold and WET and very miserable to be outside...but the footing wasn't as bad as I have ever seen. Very well established turf....the footing had been hard leading up to the event and most of the rain was steady and light so it had time to really soak in. The organizers did a very good job at putting down a lot of stone dust where needed and the volunteers kept the take off and landings well groomed. I think it was better conditions than if there had been no rain and the ground stayed rock hard...but that is just me I suppose.

                              At least at the *** level, I didn't see any really trouble with the footing in terms of slipping or struggling.....but yes, if you asked most folks there.....it was the sort of day that MOST of us would have given the ponies a day off and stayed in bed if given a choice....in fact...from Thursday on it was like that. It just wasn't pleasant...and the type of day one stays inside curled up with a good book and hot coco.

                              But it was the sort of conditions that 15 years ago...I do believe MOST competitors who were entered would have still run....and would have been fine. It is a different sport now.
                              Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Oct. 19, 2009, 11:22 AM. Reason: to add a bit more
                              ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                The *** was a very straight forward course...with most of the combinations being removed. The few combinations left in rode best when ridden forward...there were a few accuracy questions...espcially in the holding the lines...and a few just straight forward galloping fences.

                                The "man up" comment was I believe because the conditions SUCKED for the rider more than the horses. It was cold and WET and very miserable to be outside...but the footing wasn't as bad as I have ever seen. Very well established turf....the footing had been hard leading up to the event and most of the rain was steady and light so it had time to really soak in. The organizers did a very good job at putting down a lot of stone dust where needed and the volunteers keep the take off and landings well groomed.

                                At least at the *** level, I didn't see any really trouble with the footing in terms of slipping or struggling.....but yes, if you asked most folks there.....it was the sort of day that MOST of us would have given the ponies a day off and stayed in bed if given a choice....in fact...from Thursday on it was like that. It just wasn't pleasant...and the type of day one stays inside curled up with a good book and hot coco.

                                http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=man+up

                                For me anyway, I have only ever heard the term "man-up" used in the number 1 instance...so reading it in that context, it can come off a bit....

                                But it could also be used in the number 3 context, which would validate the opinions of most of the posters.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by kcrubin View Post
                                  I agree with this comment. It seems someone always has to dissect remarks and try to find something to criticize.
                                  Perhaps those folks should find something more constructive to do with their time and energy imo - volunteering, working for a non-profit, you know . . . get a job . . .

                                  kcr

                                  A single comment taken out of context, put into electronic format and spread only by reading can certainly cause ANYONE to wonder WTF? Add the possibility of a cultural barrier and it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility for folks to get the wrong impression of the comment. so to tell them to go get a job is a bit rude.
                                  ************
                                  "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                                  "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I didn't see the courses either, but it could be that certain fences may have been pulled because they had become inaccessible to emergency vehicles (such as ambulances equine rescue. etc.)

                                    I keep thinking back to Bruce's text book round at Rolex on Little Tricky a few years back when the rain had been falling hard for several days. He knew his horse's capabilities just as Boyd did this year at FH.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Good god...
                                      I love what he said. Great analogies. And any horse at that level is a brawler.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                        But it was the sort of conditions that 15 years ago...I do believe MOST competitors who were entered would have still run....and would have been fine. It is a different sport now.
                                        You would have had phases A-C to see how your horse was feeling and how it was handling the conditions.

                                        But then eventing didn't exactly 'man-up' to retain the LF.

                                        Comment

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