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Flamming Wofford and Denny...heretics!

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  • Flamming Wofford and Denny...heretics!

    Everyone get your Pitch Forks! Come on, I know that you have them....


    The recent, and lively debate about, the esteemed Mr. Wofford's PH article and Mr. Emerson being flamed for not knowing anything about jumping (heretics!!!) got me thinking:

    What is the ONE biggest myth you would like to dispel in H/J land about eventing?
    If you can see it, your doing it wrong...
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Well, I should go first

    That all of our horses were failed hunters or that we were all failed hunter riders.....
    If you can see it, your doing it wrong...

    Comment


    • #3
      most eventers don't care what other people think....!

      We do it for the sport, not for other people.
      Fillys By Vibank - 2017 Road to RRP
      https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
        most eventers don't care what other people think....!


        ...especially Hunters!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          I do know that, but it isn't like anyone from the H/J board is going to read this.
          If you can see it, your doing it wrong...

          Comment


          • #6
            When I was a kid, I rode pony hunters, then did equitation (won Maclay, rode in Zone finals in Medal three years in a row), and amateur hunters, even dabbled in jumpers. I think at the time we just wanted to jump and the hunter shows certainly provided enough jumping. When I went to California I found, after one dressage lesson, there was a whole aspect of riding I had NO CLUE about. It fascinated me, that, after riding successfully for nearly two decades, I could not sit the trot - and knew there was a gigantic hole in my riding education. (Well, I still have trouble sitting the trot...)

            I think riding well, in any discipline, is about dedication, and thinking, and being smart, getting good instruction, processing it, reading and studying, using what will work for you at the time and then going forward. Applying things to each horse that you ride. Never say never. Never say always.

            You can never know enough, you can never learn it all. Jack Le Goff told me personally he could not write a book, because he was always and still learning.

            I recently watched the Ronnie Mutch equitation class at the Devon Horse Show and was very wowed by the flat work section - the kids are riding so well nowadays - it was very impressive. I noticed one girl who sat the trot beautifully and on a warmblood who was not a fabulous mover - I could tell it took a great deal of skill to ride this horse. And....she won the class. As well as the jumping, too, the riding I saw there was beautiful and the course was not at all easy - I would have put it quite on par with an intermediate level eventing stadium course.

            I learned a great deal about riding over fences in my time in the hunter and equitation ring. Things that carry over today to the eventing that I am doing. At an event, remember, you ride only one round in stadium - even at a little unrecognized hunter show you can do five or six rounds, and have that many more chances at being better, better, better for your horse. I think any eventer that does not take the opportunity to do a little hunter show or some jumpers now and then is missing out on a very VERY good learning opportunity.

            I think when we discuss what these luminaries are saying, we are in the process, all of us, of sorting out the information and learning. We can have a little fun and poke a little here and there without being rude or inconsiderate to each other, I think.
            Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
            Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

            Comment


            • #7
              The eventers don't ALL live in Neon everything...

              Comment


              • #8
                Eventers are failed <insert discipline>
                Our horses are flat jumpers
                We yank on their mouths
                We don't do 'real' dressage
                We run like hell on x-c and just point our horses at solid jumps
                Even duct tape can't fix stupid

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thanks....

                  Originally posted by retreadeventer View Post

                  I think when we discuss what these luminaries are saying, we are in the process, all of us, of sorting out the information and learning. We can have a little fun and poke a little here and there without being rude or inconsiderate to each other, I think.
                  That is a great and thougthful post, thanks.

                  Was going for the fun part of poking fun.

                  I too learned more than I can ever know in H/J land before I came to eventing and had a similar ah-ha moment.
                  If you can see it, your doing it wrong...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hunter-eventer-hunter View Post
                    What is the ONE biggest myth you would like to dispel in H/J land about eventing?
                    I think eventing should remain mythical and legendary to those on the outside.

                    (Also -- 'flamming'?)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      JER I think Flamming is kinda like numping and flinging. I'm not 100% certain but it's probably dirty.
                      ------------------------------
                      Life Goes On

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That anyone who masters a 3'3" jumper course can go Training, today. Just ride the dressage like a flat class. Don't need a lesson, because already jump horses. Send in your entry money and just show up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lisamarie8 View Post
                          JER I think Flamming is kinda like numping and flinging. I'm not 100% certain but it's probably dirty.
                          I thought the second special COTH term was "finging"...?

                          "FLinging" is what H/J riders think eventers do to their horses over jumps - i.e., look at that crazy event rider just flinging her horse over that log!"

                          TIC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hunter-eventer-hunter View Post
                            The recent, and lively debate about, the esteemed Mr. Wofford's PH article and Mr. Emerson being flamed for not knowing anything about jumping (heretics!!!) got me thinking: . . .

                            I am a hunter/jumper person but love the eventing discipline, even though I'm not particularly knowledgeable about it. I am a huge fan of both Jimmy Wofford and Denny Emerson, IMO they are the epitome of the all around horseman and I love reading anything by either of them. In fact JW's hysterical account of the World Championships in Juarez, Spain several years ago gave a super account of the pure dressage riders, at least he knows the horse's poll is supposed to be the highest point and not the crest of the neck, unlike most of them whose horses were behind the bit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lisamarie8 View Post
                              JER I think Flamming is kinda like numping and flinging. I'm not 100% certain but it's probably dirty.
                              Oh boy, here we go again...

                              And yes, it is "finging."
                              SportHorseRiders.com
                              Taco Blog
                              *T3DE 2010 Pact*

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I know nothing of Hunter jumping having originated from the other side of the pond. But why is it called "Hunters" when it bares no resemblance whatsoever to what we do when chasing hounds?

                                I have also come across the statement, "oh he's a hunter/jumper, he doesn't do dressage". I thought horses needed to learn at least basic dressage in order to jump well.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  It only bears a very minor resemblance in that it's supposed to mimic continuous riding and jumping over a distance in the Hunt field by experienced riders and horses who understand the proper cadence and such. Show Hunters is the proper term for it but Hunters is used for aesthetic reasons I suppose and to make it seem less "sissy" by giving it that closer tie to actual Hunting by word association in the brain. Not that either term really sounds "cool" in my book but it's all about relative perception.
                                  Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I'm always confused by what I see as misconceptions between the disciplines... and the occasional animosity.

                                    When I was involved in H/J... we DID dressage. We did whole lessons working on dressage. It always confuses me to hear eventers bashing H/J people about their lack of dressage. Maybe the barns and trainers I was involved with were anomalies but they did work on dressage. They just called it flatwork. We did transitions, shortening/lengthening, leg yield, haunches in, shoulders in, sitting trot (which I would not consider to be "dressage" but a couple people mentioned a lack of it), flying changes, counter canter etc. Yeah, there wasn't really a desire to go beyond those somewhat more basic dressage skills, but half pass, tempi changes, passage and piaffe don't really apply in that discipline. Nor do some of them to eventing, yet anyways.

                                    Likewise, it's hard to hear the H/J people bashing eventers for their horses jumping form or the horse/riders not being "stylists". The goals are different in eventing. Safety, stamina, efficiency, bravery, versatility etc.
                                    2016 RRP Makeover Competitor www.EnviousBid.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by EventMum View Post
                                      I know nothing of Hunter jumping having originated from the other side of the pond. But why is it called "Hunters" when it bares no resemblance whatsoever to what we do when chasing hounds?
                                      Well, they started out wearing the same clothes, though even that's gone by the wayside now. Imagine, black field boots and "hunter"hair.

                                      madeline
                                      * What you release is what you teach * Don't be distracted by unwanted behavior* Whoever waits the longest is the teacher. Van Hargis

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Is heretics used correctly in this thread? Is a heretic a crazy person? I thought Roman Catholics have used the word in the past to refer to dissenters from the church.

                                        I'm not trying to pick on you hunter-eventer-hunter. My grammar isn't perfect either. I'm just weird!

                                        Anyway, I would like to dispel the belief that all eventers ride insane horses and gallop crazily at jumps.
                                        T3DE Pact

                                        Comment

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