• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Leave the course after elimination.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Leave the course after elimination.

    So I had the bogey jump to judge this w/e. It was the sunken road and at the Jr. Pre-training level it caused all sorts of grief. I am experienced so that is why I was given the jump and I clearly know where my line in the sand is regarding stops, setting a foot back, etc.

    But it was so sad to have to give 20, 40 and E's to so many riders. Poor little things, tears dropping onto their horse's manes and having to be comforted when told they got the big E.
    There does not seem to any easy way to deliver the verdict. Used to be a rider could continue unless pulled for unsafe riding.

    I hate that rule that says after an elimination the rider has to walk back and not continue.
    It was only a drop, not a dangerous fence and almost all the horses eventually dropped down after a stop or two. However it was fence 5 AB and their day was over. Many had come considerable distance and paid a lot of money for the experience.

    I'm over it now, but it was probably harder on me than them. BTW, I am on the lenient side in marking at that level (Srs. and Training is a different thing and actually easier to judge.It is more black and white).

    I stand by all my decisions and officials agreed - but it is a hard rule. We know that in a sportsmanlike manner you go back and school the question so you are more prepared next time, that there will be a next time, and that it takes time to develop an event horse that has seen one of every kind of jump eventually - but they were just little youngies. We also know that the object of sport is to teach character and put steel in your spine, etc.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

  • #2
    Hmmmm. I stood by that fence for a good chunk of that division (we had a barn kid in it) and I thought it looked like a fair question, but you're right, a lot of stops. These aren't little kids - it was mostly teenagers who should be able to deal with it by now.

    After seeing another barn kid helped back on a horse with a concussion at the same HT two years ago, and then subsequently gallop around like an idiot looking for her fence (she remembers none of this... we were standing on the top of the hill while the organizer was screaming over the radio to stop her), I think leaving the course after elimination is a good thing whether for falls, refusals, whatever. Who knows what caused the stop - it could be a genuine issue, training or otherwise.

    Management was nice enough to let riders do Stadium on Sunday, even the ones with a fall provided they had checked in and were cleared to go.
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."

    Comment


    • #3
      IIRC, you have always had to walk home after being eliminated. I don't know any horse trials that let you continue to jump around as an eliminated competitor.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi, Foxtrot's'
        didn't get a chance to say hi and thanks for giving up a day to volunteer to jump judge- I had two horse going in the lower divisions and helped my training level friend with her horse and the one she catch-rode. I didn't envy you your job. The person I trailered over was in the PT champs and she got caught w/ 2 stops, so I know you knew your job.
        Gry: It's a new rule up here in the last few (6? 8?) years. When I started many moons ago, my first-ever event was a now-defunct course in Ontario. I got eliminated at at least 6 of the fences and had at least one stop at all of the rest except 2 jumps, but I crossed the finish line. I'm probably the reason that rule was enacted; I was probably out on course for 20 minutes in a 4 minute course.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gry2Yng View Post
          IIRC, you have always had to walk home after being eliminated. I don't know any horse trials that let you continue to jump around as an eliminated competitor.
          I believe the USEA is currently being sued by the parents of a girl who was killed on course after she hadn't pulled up after being Eliminated.

          Comment


          • #6
            The rule has always been the same. The only recent modification is fall = elimination.

            If eventing is done for fun, a mere "E" ought not to cause anything more than superficial heartbreak. Yup, it stinks. But if it's the worst thing that happens to us in our horsey (or life) endeavors we ought to count our blessings.
            Click here before you buy.

            Comment


            • #7
              My bad. I hardly ever look to see where the OP is located.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by subk View Post
                I believe the USEA is currently being sued by the parents of a girl who was killed on course after she hadn't pulled up after being Eliminated.
                but that wasnt for three stops at one fence, but the four or five which ever it is on course and harder to get one stopped when there maybe no communication between fence judges
                Cindy

                Make any mistakes going forward!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yea, it sucks to go back on the "walk of shame," but its not the end all of everything. You can always go back and school over the question after the event ends.
                  New Username: tres grey

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    In Canada the walk off course after elimination is relatively recent.

                    I actually asked if they could be offered the chance to school the jump after the event but had to leave to go to a fundraiser, so do not know if the officials/organizers let them go out afterwards - it is by no means the norm to offer the chance, but sometimes they do here.
                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Fanfayre - I'm sorry I did not get to see you - I had to leave so didn't even see your round.
                      I hung around on Sunday a bit, too, but still missed several people I was lookig for. With two horses and helping someone else, your time is pretty much taken up anyway.

                      Sorry to your friend that I had to ding her - hope she will speak to me next time!!!

                      I wasn't trying to debate the rights and wrongs - just that in this litigious society organizers have to be so careful regarding negligence. The judges meetings make that very clear. I'm glad I came through the grass roots levels oh so many years ago - when Training was the lowest level.
                      Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It hasn't always been the rule in the States. Being required to walk off the course after elimination was a new rule back in the early '90's when I was eventing. I can't remember if you were allowed to continue on prior, or just take a courtesy fence, because I hadn't gotten the big E until after the rule, I think the first year of the rule. That was also before elimination for a cumulative number of stops on course. I had an acquaintance who was known for having two stops each at half the fences.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Leaving the course after

                          HB, you're wrong. It was a rule when I first got my TD's license in 1976. It just wasn't often enforced. There weren't a lot of us out there back then and we tended to let people continue because it wasn't an issue.

                          Malcolm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree, I would also like to see riders be able to finish the course. Especially if all or most of the issue was at just one obstacle.

                            Often if they can go on both rider and horse improve over the rest of the course. Rider more determined, gets to correct mistakes. Horse recovers confidence. They go home with far more positives than negatives.

                            When they must leave the course nothing more is learned. The day ends on a bad point, the issue isn't closed.

                            Course control could have jump judges keep an eye on progress and pull them off later if the situation is not improving. A one-more-stop-and-out would help keep things reasonable. And if the Big E came from 4 stops at 4 different jumps I'd say that's enough for the day.

                            Even most falls I've seen are pretty benign. If the rider missed her balance and just slipped off to land on her feet, if she wants to get back on, correct her mistakes and finish, imo that is the best thing that could happen. Even a fairly painless body contact with the ground can absolutely go on in most cases.

                            I know events don't want to be assigned any responsibility for deciding if riders are fit to continue after falls, I do understand. But especially at the low levels most are more "slide-off's" and no real harm done, rider is still game and knows what went wrong, and horse needs to do it over, correctly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think it really depends on the facility. A recognized show with a few hundred people competing will pull a rider off after elimination. Radio control lisn't always perfect and it can take a while before word is reached that a rider that has been eliminated continues to have safety issues. On the other hand, an unrecognized show at a small facility with small for the level fences might let a rider continue around for the schooling experience.
                              http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I was jump judging recently when a Training rider jumped the Prelim fence instead of the Training one. I radioed it in that she had jumped the wrong one, but it took a couple of fences before she was pulled up because everyone wanted to make sure that I was right and I saw her jump the wrong fence. I felt bad for her because she was having a lovely round and was by no means riding dangerously or having any issues. I know it is a logistic nightmare, but it seems like a rider should be allowed to continue if they missed a jump or jumped the incorrect one (but still get the big E).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I agree with Catalina. As a rider I'd rather finish in sublime ignorance and get the bad news at the end. I can handle that.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    of course everyone would rather have the chance to "finish" the course even if you have been given the big "E".
                                    However the sport can ill afford riders the luxury of schooling in this instance.
                                    The jump judge can hardly be responsible for making the decision about who is safe to carry on and who isn't and by the time the GJ could make that decision the rider could be over several more jumps or worse yet suffer a terrible fall with catastrophic results.
                                    Just like what happened in California, when the rider should have been stopped

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      It would be nice if you could continue if you had a technical elimination like missing a fence... but at the same time, you messed up huge.

                                      If you get disqualified in any other sport, you don't get to continue. If you get e'd in dressage, you have to leave the ring... even if it's not because your horse was threatening to flip over on you and kill all the spectators. You messed up in one way or another. It's time to leave.

                                      Does it suck BIG TIME. Absolutely. But it's part of sports and it's part of life. Things like this at a young age teach you how to accept things graciously and learn when to call it a day. If we don't learn that when it's not going well, you walk off the course and you get to continue even if you're having a bad go, some people will never learn when to walk off the course on their own if they are having a bad day, or when to wd if the course is beyond your limitations.

                                      When your horse is telling you know, for whatever reason, then it's time to listen. If you miss a fence and have a major brain fart, then yes, that's unfortunate, but maybe pay more attention next time. Hopefully you won't repeat the same mistake.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Jazzy Lady View Post
                                        It would be nice if you could continue if you had a technical elimination like missing a fence... but at the same time, you messed up huge.

                                        If you get disqualified in any other sport, you don't get to continue. If you get e'd in dressage, you have to leave the ring... even if it's not because your horse was threatening to flip over on you and kill all the spectators. You messed up in one way or another. It's time to leave.

                                        Does it suck BIG TIME. Absolutely. But it's part of sports and it's part of life. Things like this at a young age teach you how to accept things graciously and learn when to call it a day. If we don't learn that when it's not going well, you walk off the course and you get to continue even if you're having a bad go, some people will never learn when to walk off the course on their own if they are having a bad day, or when to wd if the course is beyond your limitations.

                                        When your horse is telling you know, for whatever reason, then it's time to listen. If you miss a fence and have a major brain fart, then yes, that's unfortunate, but maybe pay more attention next time. Hopefully you won't repeat the same mistake.
                                        Well said and a big reason why the rules should be applied to all competitors, young or old, ammy or pro. We all have the same partner, our horses, to train, to listen to what they say, to repect and be responsible for their and ultimely our own well being.
                                        "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                                        Courtesy my cousin Tim

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X