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TB w/bowed tendons - update/pics post 36/42.

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  • TB w/bowed tendons - update/pics post 36/42.

    Posted a video from Nov. 2010 on page 3, really didn't get a bad deal at all.

    He's mine as of July 4th.

    Last night I looked at a TB that appears to have old bows on both fronts. He trots out sound it seems. Would it be reasonable to think that a horse like this could do BN or N eventing if conditioned properly? What about first level dressage? Would he be likely to stay sound with old injuries like that?

    Above is my main question, here's the rest of the story. My hay guy knows I've been down to one horse and keeps me informed of what's out there locally. He told me about a 17H ranch horse that's too big for the owners to get on. He brought me to see said horse last night. Horse is actually probably close to 17H, which surprised me. They bought him at auction for $400 this spring and that's what they want to sell him for. He rides fine with beginners. I checked his tatoo this morning and he's a 2003 model named Copper Count that was bred in TN (tatoo # G09053). So the kicker here is that his front tendons appear to have been bowed at one point. He also has an untreated wound above his coronet band and he is a few hundred pounds underweight. He has a really nice looking trot, but needless to say he is in no condition to have a test ride.

    So besides the tendon dilema, one part of me says get this horse the hell out of there and feed him up. The other part of me that is house-student loan-animal poor says he is a money pit to rehab that I may be stuck with if I don't like him because of his tendon issue.

    I already know that I won't pay $400 for this horse in his condition, but if the lady were to negotiate, what should I do...?
    Last edited by emaren; Nov. 8, 2010, 02:52 PM. Reason: updated post

  • #2
    YES, you can have a sound horse compete up to Intermediate even if you are properly taking care of them, but man...it's A LOT of work. If you are up for it, then go for it.

    One of the horses I worked with in the past had 2 front bows. He had a year of stall rest with his tendons sweated a few times a week. After the first year he started getting light turnout, and after 6 months of that we began walk work. Lots of walking on the road - hard surface. a month of walking only. A month of mostly walk and some trot. A month of half walking and half trotting. Only on the road, and once a week he had his legs sweated. After 2 years he became 100% sound and continued his eventing career, going Prelim in Scotland. Here he is: http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z...86441_6947.jpg
    Boss Mare Eventing Blog


    • #3
      I would, if I liked the horse. The one I'm riding right now has an old bow up front, and he's doing great, and I'd buy him if I wasn't broke

      Can't tell you what to do with this guy- without a vet workup you can't really know 100% how he'll turn out. But he sounds nice and like he has a good brain, and sometimes life throws these sorts of horses in our path for a reason.
      "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

      My CANTER blog.


      • #4
        When I first saw your title, I thought 'Jeekers, this girl has to run for her life'. Then I read the rest of the story. Now I'm afraid you have to go get him. He is obviously being sent to you, goodness only knows why, but you have to save him........sorry! Be sure to take before and after photos. Post them here for us!!
        Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


        • #5
          My Old Bow Story

          I had a horse when I was younger who bowed while we were out on course. After several months of rest, we went back to doing h/j's. I wasn't in an area that made it easy to go back into eventing. Anyway, she was so automatic, and had such a nice form, she made a great hunter. I sold her 3 years later for 25K as a 12 year old. She never had a problem one after that first bow. I just made very sure to take care of her.

          Good Luck.
          May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.


          • #6
            I'm semi-enabling here and I'm not going to apologize.

            IF you can afford to keep him and your other horse and your bills and still live with some sort of quality of life AND you are patient and don't mind hard work and can cope with the potential for setbacks, then negotiate and bring him home! He needs someone to love him and rehab him right. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and an understanding of what he needs to have the best outcome possible--which as Jealoushe pointed out might be pretty darn spectacular--so you might be the best thing for him. But only if you can maintain your other responsibilities at the same time.

            FWIW, the fact that it's a tough decision tells me that you want to help this guy and you're thinking through all the pieces involved. Good for you and please let us know what you decide. Oh, and we *need* pics. Seriously. It's a need, not a want.
            Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

            You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.


            • Original Poster

              Well, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about it. If they were taking proper care of him, I probably would have just told them no last night. But there were mentions that if they were using him they would be feeding him all that he needed, but as it is he's not doing a job and they could raise three cows for what he needs. I am conflicted because I also don't want a horse I can't use, although it wouldn't stop me from feeding him. I also think they are in a bind because he really is too skinny to go back to the auction and not have them be embarrassed, but I don't know if they care. But the whole thing has been bothering me to no end.

              The other weird thing is that the lady had two other horses that died of encephalitis this spring because they weren't vaccinated in time. I'm not sure if it was West Nile or EEE, but I read a little on both this morning and I think my horse will be safe because he is vaccinated if this other horse has been exposed (although he is vaccinated now too), but I couldn't find information if my chickens and goats would be okay... Probably need to call the vet on that one to make sure before I make a decision.


              • Original Poster

                I noticed Cothers are good at enabling... Pics will be a definite if I make that decision. I was kicking myself last night that I have an ancient cell phone with no camera.


                • #9
                  I'm going to enable here to since everyone has been enabling me lately!! One of the best horses I ever had came to me just like you are describing. He was a 17.3hh TB with 2 old bows (he wasn't lame on them when he came) and very skinny!

                  here he is when he first came (the guy holding him is 6'1")

                  He never had any problems with his bows. Did I have to pay more attention and take better care of his legs, well sure, but they never gave me any problems and I hunted first flight, showed jumpers, let someone elst run timber on him (once it scared the h**l out of me) and evented him up to training level.

                  I so miss him every day and will never regret the short time I had him in my life. I think I have compaired every horse that has come after him to him.
                  Member of the Standardbreds with Saddles Clique!
                  Sophie 11 yo Iberian Warmblood mare
                  Seadog Man 11 yo STB gelding
                  Our New Jet 7 yo STB Gelding


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RiverBendPol View Post
                    When I first saw your title, I thought 'Jeekers, this girl has to run for her life'. Then I read the rest of the story. Now I'm afraid you have to go get him. He is obviously being sent to you, goodness only knows why, but you have to save him........sorry! Be sure to take before and after photos. Post them here for us!!
                    My thoughts exactly! Just fork over the $400 and get him home. Sorry to enable...
                    Taco Blog
                    *T3DE 2010 Pact*


                    • #11
                      a bit more enabling...Kim Severson's horse Jerry McGerry bowed while on course at Rolex. Yep, that was it FOR THAT SEASON AND THE NEXT, BUT, taking things oh-so-slowly, Kim brought Jerry back - it was a thrill to see him at N.Georgia some years back?! (my memory again ). I think she knew that he wasn't gonna hold up to be a 4*** horse, so she found the perfect lower level home for him...

                      You already know the odds of getting one going, problems or not - we're all rooting for you to take him cuz he deserves saving. You're the one though who has to decide if he is gonna be able to be a riding/jumping/eventing horsie. Please keep us posted!
                      ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RunForIt View Post
                        a bit more enabling...Kim Severson's horse Jerry McGerry bowed while on course at Rolex. Yep, that was it FOR THAT SEASON AND THE NEXT, BUT, taking things oh-so-slowly, Kim brought Jerry back - it was a thrill to see him at N.Georgia some years back?! (my memory again ). I think she knew that he wasn't gonna hold up to be a 4*** horse, so she found the perfect lower level home for him...
                        Fairly certain I saw him with a YR in California in the early 2000's going intermediate. Can't for the life of me remember the rider's name but I do remember the horse's name and someone telling me he'd been to Rolex.

                        One of my horses bowed both front tendons at the track. I started riding him many years after that so don't know what they did to rehab him; however, his tendons were not an issue. We did the C-3 rating, evented at novice, and schooled training level jumps.
                        ***Honorary Member of the "What is BOSS?" Cult...er...CLIQUE***
                        ***Prominent Member of the 'Irrelevent Posters Clique'***
                        CrayolaPosse ~ Bluegreen


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by emaren View Post
                          So besides the tendon dilema, one part of me says get this horse the hell out of there and feed him up. The other part of me that is house-student loan-animal poor says he is a money pit to rehab that I may be stuck with if I don't like him because of his tendon issue.

                          he may not have a tendon issue.....lots and lots of horses stay sound and compete at the ULs with old bows. I had one that I bought WITH an active bow....as in still hot, still lame and not set. He wasn't too unsound and I just bought him to be a pasture buddy for my yearling. His bow healed just great with no rehab from me...just time and turn out (not what I would do with a competition horse). He was a cool horse and never had an lameness issue from that tendon....other things are what affected him. If he didn't have his other issues...I'm sure he would have held up fine for Prelim and below.

                          Go save him....worst case, you get a nice pasture buddy hack horse. If they are quiet like that....you can always find them a good home as a husband horse.
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **


                          • #14
                            Just tell the lady that you will take him OFF her hands - for free. She, and he, loses every day he stands there. She should be relieved that she won't need to hassle with trying to unload him. It doesn't sound like the promise of a good home would be an incentive to her, but tell her that she wouldn't have to bother with it anymore. Or trade her for something you don't need or value anymore. Barter vs cash if she needs to feel like she deserves something out of it.

                            He is going to love you for this! Kiss him on the nose, a big smooch from me!
                            Don't let anyone tell you that your ideas or dreams are foolish. There is a millionaire walking around who invented the pool noodle.


                            • #15
                              You'd be surprised by the number of horses that compete at the highest level in the sport of eventing with multiple bows. While always unfortunate, it's not that uncommon. That's a fact.


                              • Original Poster

                                Enablers win!

                                Well, I am going to go ahead and try to buy him. I will let you all know what happens and maybe I'll have some pics next week if it works out.


                                • #17
                                  I'm not gonna apologize for enabling you either.

                                  And I will take a minute to wax eloquent about my buzz-monster. Those of you who have had to listen to me go on and on about him, you can dial out now.

                                  I came to this very forum, January of 2002 and asked about a horse with an old bow. The one on the left was so large, even though cold and set, that we missed the old smaller one on the right front. Found out about it later. He was also a stallion, underweight, only 15.1 and a short compact, 15.1 at that. Very well bred TB, but was never registered. And HORRIBLE manners.

                                  Owner who can't ride her way out of a paper bag that is open at both ends IF you gave her a map ought to walk away as quickly as possible, right?

                                  It was the best $450 I've ever spent!

                                  He turned out to be VERY accident prone, but none of it was related to the old bows. After I'd had him for a couple of years, Ralph saw him when he was in Ocala for something else, and just liked his "I can handle this!" tough punk attitude.

                                  So, I lucked into a situation where Ralph ended up starting him eventing. He competed successfully up through Training with Ralph and they were awesome. Then he had a minor injury (again, not the bows) that we had to stall rest him through, and then before he came back, Ralph had had his fall.

                                  We had hopes of bringing him back starting last fall -- I got to jump him for the first time myself (he was so athletic that he was really too much horse for me over fences) in October in the clinic with Jon Holling.

                                  I am so very glad I did. In the dramatic way he did everything else, he played chicken with a car and lost the day after Christmas.

                                  I miss him every single day. Still. You'd think after six months I could write about him without crying, but I can't.

                                  Yeah, I did him a favor by grabbing him from where he was in life, and saving him from where he was probably going to end up. But I wish I could find the words to tell you that what I did for him was NOTHING compared to what he gave me.

                                  That horse taught me more about life and dealing with hard knocks and bouncing back up with a smile than anyone or anything else in my life ever has.

                                  Get this guy and take him home. I think you will be glad you did.

                                  Libby (who promises to stop being maudlin about missing the Monster some day. Really.)
                                  I have Higher Standards ...do you? Find us on FB!
                                  Higher Standards Custom Leather Care -- Handcrafted Saddle Soap


                                  • #18

                                    OP--if the bows are cold and set, which it sounds like they are, you will most likely be able to start his conditioning as soon as you get some groceries into him. I have seen lots of TBs with old bows go on to do h/j, foxhunt, trails--they just need attention to detail and a little extra TLC.

                                    Keep us updated!

                                    Bensmom--your story brought tears to my eyes.


                                    • #19
                                      What a wondeful story!
                                      I have a similar one... with my thoroughbred mare... redhead...
                                      She was also accident prone... but through all the ups (greatest show jumper A/O horse that I also evented) and the downs (accidents in pasture...) she taught me the world... I just lost her 2 months ago and I don't think I will ever be able to think or talk about her without getting teary eyed/crying!
                                      I am so grateful for everyday that I got with her... even though she was the "problem horse"... She ended up leaving me at the age of 10- had her for a wonderful 7 years... Her spleen ruptured over night> tried to saver her but the hospital gave her less than 5%... And then came the hardest decision of my life... But these are the ones that teach you the most valuable lessons in life...

                                      Ok back to the original post: She had a bow... jumped the moon for a couple of years after that and was also evented on it... never took a bad step..
                                      Good luck to you! And great job for doing the "right thing"... he will pay you back in millions....
                                      Proudly living in my "let's save the world bubble"!


                                      • #20
                                        Thanks, guys.

                                        Jumpingmaya -- those problem horses sometimes steal your heart the worst!

                                        You guys make me feel so much better -- it is nice to share with folks who understand. In an unrelated issue -- I think in our case, this has been made a little tougher as the woman that hit him has been trying to sue me over the last few months. My homeowners insurance (yay State Farm!) has been fantastic and after evaluation, insists that I am not negligent, which is nice. (we apparently had a third party trespasser who opened the gate where the boys were)

                                        But, it has been a little hard because no one in the non-horsey world seems to understand that while I was not personally involved in the accident, I have suffered damage as well.

                                        Hopefully now that we've denied coverage, the issue will go away, but you can't ever be sure.

                                        In any event, it sounds like this guy is going to get a chance for a great home! Please keep us updated!!!

                                        I have Higher Standards ...do you? Find us on FB!
                                        Higher Standards Custom Leather Care -- Handcrafted Saddle Soap