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rotational fall at Bramham CCI***

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
    What difference does it make, not being snotty just actually curious. How would the horse have fallen if there was one. I'm still inclined to think the fall would be pretty nasty.
    The risk of the horse rotating would have been decreased significantly if not completely. yes, the horse would still have likely fallen, but not ass over teakettle. that's the POINT of frangible pins - to reduce risk, significantly, of the RF, which is the most deadly fall that can occur.

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    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by flyingchange View Post
      The risk of the horse rotating would have been decreased significantly if not completely. yes, the horse would still have likely fallen, but not ass over teakettle. that's the POINT of frangible pins - to reduce risk, significantly, of the RF, which is the most deadly fall that can occur.
      The frangible pin was designed specifically to change the trajectory of the horse in a rotational fall.

      In a rotational fall, the horse and rider are rotating on the same trajectory. The horse is very likely to fall on, and therefore crush, the rider.

      The frangible pin is designed to allow the fence to collapse at a particular point in the rotation that will change the trajectory of the HORSE, causing it to fall straight down, rather than continue rotating over. The rider will continue on the same trajectory as before but without the threat of being crushed by the horse.

      And Point Two airbag fans, please understand that your flotation device will not inflate unless you are separated from your horse. In a rotational fall, the rider may stay with the horse and therefore, not activate the inflation mechanism. The good news in that case is you won't have to buy a new canister for your air jacket but then there's a 30% chance that your heirs will be the ones receiving this good news.

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      • #23
        A *very* small point, but it looks to me like there is a possibility that the inflatable vest changes the rider's shape sufficiently, to something more like a ball, that is might be easier for the rider to roll away from the point of impact, rather than just crumpling there. Perhaps some small increase in the chance that the horse doesn't land on the rider.

        Agree that I'd much rather see that picture with the fence having broken away. Perhaps wouldn't see the pic at all as it wouldn't be dramatic enough to warrant front-pages in the news.

        Very lucky outcome, given the givens. Whew.
        "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

        Spay and neuter. Please.

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        • #24
          Yes, where the h*** was that frangible?

          To me, it is just heartbreaking to see that horse have to go through that type of fall. No horse ever wants to find itself in that moment, and I sincerely, truly doubt that general horse antics ever get the horse into a rotation fall. It's almost always b/c of what we ask it to do for us...

          That bothers me a lot.

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          • #25
            Thanks for the pin info guys. I knew what they were for, I just tend to think the horse would be injured worse if the pole does collapse.

            I guess we have to choose the riders life is more important than the horses. I hate making a choice like that.
            Boss Mare Eventing Blog
            https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
              Thanks for the pin info guys. I knew what they were for, I just tend to think the horse would be injured worse if the pole does collapse.

              I guess we have to choose the riders life is more important than the horses. I hate making a choice like that.
              You are right. The pin was designed to try to save the RIDER, not the horse, following the spate of high-level rider deaths in the UK in 1999.

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              • #27
                Equine Thinking?

                Originally posted by cyberbay View Post
                No horse ever wants to find itself in that moment
                As much as I appreciate the sentiment behind your post, this sentence made me smile as I sincerely doubt that any horse is capable of thinking that far ahead or that literal

                I don't doubt though that a horse that has had a bad fall may be worried about falling again in a similar situation. Or at least be wary on some level of a certain jump where a previous fall occurred.

                Re: the picture, that is a horrid shot, and you do have to wonder why (aside from the usual cost reasons) a frangible pin wasn't put in. From what I've read about the Bramham course designer (Sue Benson) over the years, I don't think she creates the most horse friendly courses out there either; I've read complaints about her in Horse and Hound a lot over the years.

                Perhaps it is time as someone above said to start keeping stats on falls per course designer!

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                • #28
                  Not to hijack but ran across this today, very sad

                  http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/news/...l/article.html
                  Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                    Thanks for the pin info guys. I knew what they were for, I just tend to think the horse would be injured worse if the pole does collapse.

                    I guess we have to choose the riders life is more important than the horses. I hate making a choice like that.
                    If you look at the frame-by-frame photos, the horse rotates around the pole. If the frangible pin broke and the pole fell when the horse chested it, maybe the horse would fall forward with the pole rather than rotate around it. More like what happens with a stadium fence. No solid point to rotate around.

                    In this particular fall the horse might have been more banged up with the pole breaking. But in some falls the horse breaks their neck when they land. The pin breaking might make that less likely?

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                    • Original Poster

                      #30
                      Originally posted by Janeway View Post
                      From what I've read about the Bramham course designer (Sue Benson) over the years, I don't think she creates the most horse friendly courses out there either; I've read complaints about her in Horse and Hound a lot over the years.

                      Perhaps it is time as someone above said to start keeping stats on falls per course designer!
                      Sue Benson was the CD at Belton Horse Trials. the event at which rider Ian Olding was killed in April of this year. His death came at an absolutely batsh*t complex in which riders/horses had to negotiate around two life-size human figurines.

                      2009 was Benson's last year designing at Bramham. Ian Stark is taking over for 2010.

                      Sue Benson is the Olympic designer for 2012 and yes, there has been much concern about her selection and controversy over her courses.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by cyberbay View Post
                        Yes, where the h*** was that frangible?

                        To me, it is just heartbreaking to see that horse have to go through that type of fall. No horse ever wants to find itself in that moment, and I sincerely, truly doubt that general horse antics ever get the horse into a rotation fall. It's almost always b/c of what we ask it to do for us...

                        That bothers me a lot.
                        Just the look in the poor horses eyes! A real WTF moment indeed!
                        Steph

                        http://community.webshots.com/user/stephanne014

                        Rerider/Haydunker Clique

                        RIP Barbaro, you were my hero!

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                        • #32
                          The pin will help to prevent serious injury to the horse to. A lot of horses that land on their head during rotation break their necks. When the pins break the pole drops down and takes the point of rotation away, the horse falls down onto its chest and mostly rolls over its shoulder, which is a far less severe crash with less serious injuries.

                          But what the pictures show, the airvest did not deploy fast enough, the rider is already crashing head on into the ground while the airvest is still inflating. Second, the pinney is restricting inflation, the pinney ties prevent proper inflation, How does the vest work with the slip on pinney they used in Luhmuehlen. Third, if one takes a look at the jump into the water, the teather is close to max stretch.

                          Because the vest deployed to slow, it was not able to prevent injuries, the reason in this case is the teather, it has to be long ( see water in jump ), but for that reason, the deployment happened to late. And the vest would have not prevented the rider from beeing crushed by the horse.
                          That I have no use for them, does not mean, that I don't know them and don't know how to use them.
                          Caveman extraordinair

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by JER View Post
                            Sue Benson was the CD at Belton Horse Trials. the event at which rider Ian Olding was killed in April of this year. His death came at an absolutely batsh*t complex in which riders/horses had to negotiate around two life-size human figurines.

                            2009 was Benson's last year designing at Bramham. Ian Stark is taking over for 2010.

                            Sue Benson is the Olympic designer for 2012 and yes, there has been much concern about her selection and controversy over her courses.
                            I am not a fan of her courses, and won't ride any that she's designed. I think they're too hard on the horses.
                            Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!

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                            • #34
                              Is Sue Benson a CMP acolyte? Does she worship at his feet, live by his precepts, and design by his rules? Is she a tough Cupcake? Should British eventers don Smurf suits at HER courses?

                              "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by kookicat View Post
                                I am not a fan of her courses, and won't ride any that she's designed. I think they're too hard on the horses.
                                What courses has Sue Benson designed?

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                                • #36
                                  She designed the Rio Pan Am course, no?
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                                  • #37
                                    and the horse?

                                    I'm surprised nothing was said about the horse!
                                    breeder of Mercury!

                                    remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

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                                    • #38
                                      What more can be said? The pic says it all. What some of the courses subject the horses to is a betrayal of our responsibility to look after their welfare.

                                      Sure the rider's have that responsibility, but so do the CDs. They should be accountable for the price that is being exacted from the horses.

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Carol Ames View Post
                                        I'm surprised nothing was said about the horse!
                                        The article said the horse 'escaped with bruising.'

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          and yet Badminton had none, why?

                                          So... last weekend international eventing at *** or above had two rotational falls out of three competitions.However at Badminton, there were NONE, why?

                                          __________________
                                          *T3DE 2010 Pact*
                                          breeder of Mercury!

                                          remember to enjoy the moment, and take a moment to enjoy and give God the glory for these wonderful horses in our lives.BECAUSE: LIFE is What Happens While Making Other Plans

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