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Long Format Incentives?

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  • Long Format Incentives?

    My friend Ariel Grald just finished the classic format 3 day that the Ross`s hosted last weekend, and another friend, Doug Payne, won it.

    Good for them! They are REAL eventers, in this latter day of whimpdom!

    So I`ve been trying to think of ways to encourage other riders to take up the challenge of the true "complete test"

    I don`t have any miraculous ideas; if I did I`d have shared them long ago, but there`s one little thing I CAN do, which is to give lessons for half price to any riders, in any year, who have finished a full format 3-day, half star, one star, any star you want, in that calendar year.

    Maybe Jimmy would consider doing something similar, maybe other coaches who still believe in the concept?

    Not a "challenge", just a thought.

  • #2
    Holy cow, denny. That's quite a generous offer.
    "Cynicism is a sorry kind of wisdom" Barack Obama


    • #3
      Wow. That IS a generous offer. I'm aiming for the half star with my green horse next year, will remember this!

      I ride at Waredaca -- one of our coaches, Steph Butts, was also at the VA one star this weekend. Another boarder and I were wondering WHAT has happened -- Denny, WHY were there only 5? Do we really know???

      This boarder and I are both competitive, ambitious amateurs. We both have nice horses and have done a few prelims and the half star. Both of us might have run the * this year but for horse injury -- one major (but all healed as of last week!) and one minor...so...that must be fairly normal, an X% attrition any given event due to injury....

      what is NOT normal? Is it the pros who are all skipping the LF entirely, and dragging their students with them? Why?? Obviously, in my little neck of the woods, we are still all very much aware of the value of the LF -- we run a half star and still have active LF competitors whenever possible...so I don't have a window into what is happening....
      The big man -- my lost prince

      The little brother, now my main man


      • #4
        Denny, that is VERY generous. I am hoping to someday have a horse for a LF event, and I about went nuts with jealousy when my sister did the Florida half-star after only 3 outings at Training. I don't have any ideas other than what you offered (which, again, is SUPER generous), but kudos to you!


        • #5
          you never did offer me half price lessons 30 years ago!!!


          • Original Poster

            I should have charged you double, as combat pay!!!!


            • #7
              Originally posted by denny View Post

              Good for them! They are REAL eventers, in this latter day of whimpdom
              While your idea is great, you may also want to stop referring to people who choose the short formats as 'whimps'.

              I want to do the long format to challenge myself, but I don't want to do the long format and figure out if I can just be an eventer or if I have to join some 'elite club' of long format.

              Also, am I going to be ostrascized forever by long format eventers if, for whatever reason, I chose to never compete in the long format?

              These are not necessarily my thoughts, but still, words like those quoted above tend to draw lines in the sand that, for the sake of the long format, should not be drawn.
              Last edited by Ajierene; May. 29, 2009, 11:18 AM.


              • #8
                Originally posted by denny View Post
                I should have charged you double, as combat pay!!!!

                Hey let me know if you need the other hip broken

                Seriously though, GREAT and generous offer....


                • #9
                  Combat pay, hihihihihi.

                  Denny what realy needs to change is the attitude of the current trainer generation. People will do the Long Format if their trainer considers it important and incourages them. but currently most trainers will say No.

                  Than we need to take the it is Such a big deal out of, if some say today if I have a LF horse and means the T3D, than we already see one of the problems. Any Training horse can do a T3D, any, even a pony, a quarter, a paint, wb and what ever you want.
                  I think if people understand that it is a rather acheaveble goal for anybody than it might catch on more. Same for the 1 Star, yes, that one is tougher, but it is possible with a solid prelim horse.

                  There is 2 thinks that need to be done.

                  1. Trainers must or should encourage it. People do what their trainers and coaches tell them

                  2. The stigma of the ultimate test, the iron man thing, or triatlon thing, the chosen few has to go. People have to learn and understand that at the levels it is offered it is very possible, needs a little more effort and a very worth while goal.
                  That I have no use for them, does not mean, that I don't know them and don't know how to use them.
                  Caveman extraordinair


                  • #10
                    Well, hell, I'll take you up on that, except my gas bill would make your lessons 100 more expensive than they are now. Some help you are.

                    Seriously, that is a wonderful offer! Thank you!



                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gnep View Post

                      2. The stigma of the ultimate test, the iron man thing, or triatlon thing, the chosen few has to go. People have to learn and understand that at the levels it is offered it is very possible, needs a little more effort and a very worth while goal.
                      Nina's Story
                      Epona Comm on FB


                      • #12

                        Wow, Denny that is a great offer, I too was one of the "five" and this has been a goal of mine for almost thiry years (Yikes, I was at the 78 World Championships) and was 17 at the time, so I am an old fart! I had this as the ultimate goal and I am so glad that I was able to accomplish it, it was not easy and had to wait for the right horse the right time and everything fell into place at the right time, I hope to do the CCN* next year and finsh on the dressage score!! I think that more Big name Coaches need to get on board and encourage the younger people to set this as a goal!! The sad thing is so many young people are looking to move beyond the one star level and are in a rush to get it done. I personally think that a LF CCN* should be a "rider" requirement to move on to the other levels, yes all horses do not need the LF, but I think that all riders could benefit from that experience and it would give a job to those LF style horses that just dont do as well in the SF arena. If I am in the SP area, I would love to come and take you up on your offer!! Thanks for being a VOCAL supporter!!

                        Still riding high after Sat at VAHT!! That day rocked!

                        Make any mistakes going forward!


                        • #13
                          Denny - love the offer! It is so nice and encouraging when people back up their beliefs!!

                          Reed, we can split the gas!!


                          • #14
                            Money is ALWAYS a good incentive. Like I said in the other thread, if I had any I would be putting it up for prizes. Perhaps we could do a fundraiser to make a pool of $$?

                            What about a LF point or medal system and then year end prizes? Or individual cash prizes at shows?

                            I was chatting with a friend who's daughter may do the T-3day later, and she was balking a bit at the increased entry free. If there was a chance to win back some costs, she would be much more interested. I don't think the organizers should have to cough this up since they are doing a great favor already, but surely we could come up with some $$ for this cause. Then even folks who want to do it but don't have the horse/time/nerve can contribute.


                            • #15
                              Excellent idea!!



                              • #16
                                Originally posted by TB or not TB? View Post
                                I was chatting with a friend who's daughter may do the T-3day later, and she was balking a bit at the increased entry free. If there was a chance to win back some costs, she would be much more interested. I don't think the organizers should have to cough this up since they are doing a great favor already, but surely we could come up with some $$ for this cause. Then even folks who want to do it but don't have the horse/time/nerve can contribute.
                                I think Coconino gave $ to their T3D winner. Also, loads of prizes.
                                If they didn't give something separate to the T3D winner, the best score in T/P/I definitely gets some cash back.

                                Great sponsors make this possible.
                                ~ Horse Box Lovers Clique ~


                                • Original Poster

                                  Spread to broader group?

                                  Actually, my thought in making that offer was in the hopes that the idea might spread.
                                  Generally, the people who ride with you, ride with you, so I didn`t see it as earth-shatteringly generous.

                                  BUT, if other instructors who support the classic format got on board (in some way, maybe a different way), and if any tack shops or other horse product suppliers would give discounts, that could really start something more significant.

                                  So many say "Save the 3-day", but there`s nothing tangible that I`m aware of.

                                  This concept is a more direct reward to the few who actually have the gumption and the drive and the enterprise to actually go do it.


                                  • #18
                                    Wow Denny. Great offer. Now all Arielle and I need is the horse and the $$. Both of us would love to do it, we just are stuck within current constraints. I find it amazing that those who do have appropriate sound horses choose to do 10 horse trials versus 3-4 HT leading up to a 3-day. I think that the argument that they make is the cost in soundness, time, $$, and, for professionals, exposure of sales horses to potential buyers.

                                    What they end up with is a milquetoast version of eventing.


                                    • #19
                                      I came onto the eventing scene a bit late (post LF), so am not clear on what exactly the roads/tracks and steeplechase phases entail. Is there a detailed description of the specific requirements somewhere? Are roads/tracks literally riding on roads or hard surfaces? What's the lowest level that the LF offers? How does the ' * ' system work? Does 1* vs. 2* vs. 3* correlate with training, prelim, intermediate?


                                      • #20

                                        It's all in the marketing. The T3DE should be the goal of every lower level rider. As Gnep says, most horses can go around a training course so the lower level trainers should be encouraging their amateur riders to have the T3DE as their long term goal.

                                        Riders need to be proactive and ask their coaches about it, "Is fluffy capable of a T3DE some day?" and coaches need to be in support of that. It's more work for everyone involved but the rewards are worth it.

                                        If it gets me a 1/2 off lesson with the Denny's and Jimmy's of the world, well that's just gravy.

                                        The bigger question is how do we get the trainers to promote it? Is it advocated as part of the ICP curriculum? The ICP, love it or hate it, is a way to affect what perspective the coaches take. If Robin, Phyllis ect talk to the future coaches about how important the 3DE is then trickle down will happen. The problem is the higher up the food chain needs to feel like it is a worth while endeavor.

                                        As an aside I have no idea what Robin and Phyllis' opinion on the LF is they were just the first faculty I could think of.
                                        It takes a good deal of physical courage to ride a horse. This, however, I have. I get it at about forty cents a flask, and take it as required. ~Stephen Leacock