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Average horse temperature after upper level XC?

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  • Average horse temperature after upper level XC?

    Does anyone know what the average temperature a horse will have after coming off a *** or **** course? I was talking to someone who was at JF and said one horse (who went on to win the next day) had a temperature of 106 coming off of xc. Is that pretty normal for this level? How long does it take to get it back down? I've only done a T3D and have never worked in the vet box so I don't know.

  • #2
    I have been told that 104 is quite high (as in get ice water on them immediately and continue doing so until they are down to 101); anything above 104 is cause for enormous concern. I was given to believe that would be the region of "cooking" the muscles.

    That was at CCI*/** - I don't know if higher temps are "expected" at Advanced.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

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    • #3
      I worked the vet box during a ***, and the average temp we got was 103.
      proud co-owner of the dark bay mafia and one very shifty chestnut.

      http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/EAlli/

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      • #4
        I seem to remember 104+/- among horses coming off the CCI*** XC at Fair Hill last year. We did the CCI** and the vets were very pleased with 102.something and let us go fairly quicky.

        Looking online, I found the abstract of a study of horses competing at Burghley in 1993 & 1994 (so long-format) and it said the average temp after Phase D was 105.9 and temps ranged from 103.4 to 107+.
        The conclusion: "While the Speed and Endurance test at CCI*****level run in a temperate climate presents a considerable challenge to the fitness and ability of the horses competing, the metabolic and physiological changes are not extreme. The majority of horses that finish the test appear to undergo a rapid and considerable degree of recovery and are able to present sound at the final inspection, take part in the showjumping test and complete the competition."

        The Singer article is more recent and compared LF and SF CCI** info, but I don't have a link to that.
        I evented just for the Halibut.

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        • #5
          My purebred Connemara pony had a temp of 101 coming off of the CIC** at Fair Hill in April (and almost made time!).... the vet was impressed and sent us right on our way
          Courtney Sendak
          www.defyinggravityeventing.com

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          • #6
            I known one that would come in off the long format at 107ish. Horse did much better in the short format.

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            • #7
              The critical threshold for horses is 107/108.

              Of course, 'normal' is relative and you really need to know what's normal for your horse -- how fast does he cool out? what is his temp after exercising in the head? is his sweating response normal for him?

              This article has a good summary.

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              • #8
                A black mare that i competed at the long format a number of years ago always had a resting temp of 100.3 so when we came off phase D it was over 105 took lots of ice and reicing to bring down and the mare was wheeling around like she was ready to do endurance day all over again, was not tired or winded, her not settling down did not help bring her temp down .
                Other horses I have had at 3-days have always been in the 103 to 104 range depending on the weather for the day.

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                • #9
                  There is no average...because you have to consider the weather.

                  For example...Fair Hill last fall was very cool. Jersey Fresh this year was VERY humid and on the hot side.....but the humidity is almost worse than the heat.


                  So in hot humid weather...I would expect the temps to be higher...and actually to probably go up after they cross the finish. It is why it is so important to have a good team of people who know how to cool down a horse fast usng ice water (maybe even alcohol in the water), cooling fans etc......

                  But a temp even as high as 105 wouldn't freak me out...but you would work to cool them down as fast as you can.
                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                  • #10
                    I would think the temp 5 minutes after the finish is much, much more significant and informative than the first one taken directly after the finish flags. The Atlanta studies not only showed that you can't cool out a horse too fast, but the faster the better. I agree with bfne, the average temp would be related to the weather conditions, so it's difficult to have an across the board average.

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                    • #11
                      A couple years ago at the Morven CCI* it was very humid (visibly so) and in the mid 70s. Many of the horses were coming off off x/c with temps around 105. Thankfully the organizers had LOTS of ice.
                      He attacked everything in life with a mix of extrordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.
                      - Douglas Adams

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NeverTime View Post
                        Looking online, I found the abstract of a study of horses competing at Burghley in 1993 & 1994 (so long-format) and it said the average temp after Phase D was 105.9 and temps ranged from 103.4 to 107+.
                        The conclusion: "While the Speed and Endurance test at CCI*****level run in a temperate climate presents a considerable challenge to the fitness and ability of the horses competing, the metabolic and physiological changes are not extreme. The majority of horses that finish the test appear to undergo a rapid and considerable degree of recovery and are able to present sound at the final inspection, take part in the showjumping test and complete the competition."
                        If I'm reading the above abstract correctly, it sounds like the 1993 Burghley was much cooler - 68 in the sun, 3% humidity - than the 1994 event - 84 in the sun and 10% humidity. The high and low temp ranges of 103.4 and 107.2 were calculated in the second, hotter year.
                        I evented just for the Halibut.

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                        • #13
                          The horses I saw at this year's Rolex, which was warmer than some have been, were around 104.
                          ~Nancy~

                          Adams Equine Wellness

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                          • #14
                            I know that the first year pony club had polocrosse championships (KY Horse Park in August) they tracked temps--most of them were 103-105 after 8 minute chukkas--and those horses played four chukkas per day for three days, without any noticeable problems. They went down very quickly (within 15 minutes each time) with the application of ice water. The big thing that I noticed, was that you almost could not keep enough drinking water in front of the horses, either while cooling down or in the barns. They drank 3+ buckets each night, and we were scrambling to borrow extra buckets to hang in the stalls! I can see where giving IV fluids would be very important for event horses in hot climates.

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                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Perhaps "average" was not the correct word to use. I was curious as to the range, the upper limits of what is seen and at what point its considered dangerously high. (What would the point of no return be???)

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Highflyer View Post
                                I know that the first year pony club had polocrosse championships (KY Horse Park in August) they tracked temps--most of them were 103-105 after 8 minute chukkas--and those horses played four chukkas per day for three days, without any noticeable problems. They went down very quickly (within 15 minutes each time) with the application of ice water. The big thing that I noticed, was that you almost could not keep enough drinking water in front of the horses, either while cooling down or in the barns. They drank 3+ buckets each night, and we were scrambling to borrow extra buckets to hang in the stalls! I can see where giving IV fluids would be very important for event horses in hot climates.
                                Excellent point! Hydrate UP!

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                                • #17
                                  Reading this thread makes me remember back 4 or 5 years to the NAYRC in Lexington VA, where I was part of the groom team cooling off the horses for the Area II teams. That year they had both the long and short format CCI*, and the horses in the short format came in hotter for the most part than those that came in off the long format. Anecdotal, yes, since I have no idea what "normal" was for any of the horses, but it got my attention. It was my first personal experience with the short format.

                                  Our horse in his three three-days (all long format, two one stars and a two star) comes off XC around 103 - 103.5, and typically goes UP a degree or too in the first 5-10 minutes, requiring aggressive cooling (which we know and are prepared for.) He is not stressed in other ways, recovers quickly in all his other measurements, but he just "runs hot." It's important to know your individual horse's tendencies.
                                  "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." ~ Mark Twain

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                                  • #18
                                    In general, if they're at 102 or 103, I'm cooling them out but not too worried about it; if they are at 104-105 I start cooling pretty aggressively and the only one I ever had come in at 105.2 we worked very hard to get iced down FAST. Alot depends on the horse - we had one TB who came off a long format CCI* last fall at 101 and didn't change until ten minutes in when he started trying to show the vet who was trying to take a third temp how well his hind legs were working. And this bugger jigged the entire roads and tracks (and had been at 101.2 coming off of C). I saw other horses who were just a bit of a different type and they came in quite a bit warmer, though the temperatures were nigh perfect for XC. In contrast, at Jersey a few years ago it was blistering hot and humid I remember even super fit TBs coming off XC with temps north of 104 and it being really really hard to get them cool - we stood most of them in the fans for a long time in the covered ring, as the mud in there got deeper and deeper.

                                    Big fan of running fluids if the horse needs it. Particularly if you have one who wants to be a little picky about strange water buckets or different tasting water, or even if they look like they might be a bit muscle sore, I want them hydrated as much as possible, as soon as possible. It makes them alot more comfortable faster.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Ditto what GotSpots said, on every point. I was at Jersey in 07 and it was miserable, and we did most of our cooling in the shade of the (very swampy!) indoor and misting fans.

                                      In "normal" summery weather conditions, 103 to 104 is about what I expect; after 10 minutes of cooldown, a fit horse should be back to 102 or less. Go up or down a degree if weather is very hot/humid or breezy/cool. Anything above 105 is indication of a SERIOUSLY STRESSED horse and must be cooled down ASAP (especially taken into consideration that the temp will continue to rise momentarily after the initial t/p/r).
                                      “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
                                      ? Albert Einstein

                                      ~AJ~

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                                      • #20
                                        I used to help in the vet box at Camino Real. I seem to remember after they came off course we took their temp immediately and it was high. However, many times it was higher a little while after they had been there then started coming down. Any ideas on that, does the wind they generate while moving have anything to do with it. They had huge troughs of iced water of course and I never saw a horse in trouble although their release times varied.

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