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OMG!! O'Connor/Parelli stuff

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  • OMG!! O'Connor/Parelli stuff

    A friend just forwarded me a note that said to take a look at the event schedule on Parelli's website. It includes a couple seminar's that Karen & David are doing at Parelli's Colorado ranch (a 2 week session with David or 2 1-week sessions with Karen). The best emotional description I can come up with is "sad bordering on p*ssed". A single one week session with Karen is $4000!!! Yes, it includes lodging and boarding, but gimme a break! The 2 week session wtih David is $8000!! ***AND*** participants must already be Parelli Level 1 certified (from what I can see, basically having already gone through the program to the tune of over $1500).

    So I ask you, my fellow BB denisons... is it me and my personal "cheapness" (not cheap per se, just broke trying to do everything I want) that thinks this is the marketing plan from h#ll for us riders and "ordinary folks"? Or am I not alone in an overall feeling of being "let down" by 2 of eventing's greatest... not to mention people I look(ed) up to??

    http://www.parelli.com/Main%20Pages/...lder/kdisc.htm

    ************
    If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

    Survivor thoughts -- Episode 9 recap ... Sean definitely needs riding lessons. Buh-Bye Zoe you manly-girl you.

    GO RED WINGS!!!
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike
  • Original Poster

    #2
    A friend just forwarded me a note that said to take a look at the event schedule on Parelli's website. It includes a couple seminar's that Karen & David are doing at Parelli's Colorado ranch (a 2 week session with David or 2 1-week sessions with Karen). The best emotional description I can come up with is "sad bordering on p*ssed". A single one week session with Karen is $4000!!! Yes, it includes lodging and boarding, but gimme a break! The 2 week session wtih David is $8000!! ***AND*** participants must already be Parelli Level 1 certified (from what I can see, basically having already gone through the program to the tune of over $1500).

    So I ask you, my fellow BB denisons... is it me and my personal "cheapness" (not cheap per se, just broke trying to do everything I want) that thinks this is the marketing plan from h#ll for us riders and "ordinary folks"? Or am I not alone in an overall feeling of being "let down" by 2 of eventing's greatest... not to mention people I look(ed) up to??

    http://www.parelli.com/Main%20Pages/...lder/kdisc.htm

    ************
    If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

    Survivor thoughts -- Episode 9 recap ... Sean definitely needs riding lessons. Buh-Bye Zoe you manly-girl you.

    GO RED WINGS!!!
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

    Comment


    • #3
      tle -- yeah, it pretty much smacks of capitalism. I don't know enough about these kinds of programs to know if the cost is really worth it. I guess if you want to be a horse trainer, it could be your equivalent of going to college and paying tuition? On the other hand, it is a butt load of money to pay for only 1 or 2 weeks. Are these seminars more for people wanting to become trainers or just ordinary folks who ride?

      This is no excuse, but Parelli and the O'Connors aren't the only ones doing this. I think it also takes several thousands of dollars (maybe even tens of thousands??) to become a John Lyons-certified trainer. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

      [This message was edited by drifting cloud on Apr. 26, 2002 at 12:19 PM.]
      \"So shines a good deed in a weary world\" - Willy Wonka

      Comment


      • #4
        I heard that tonights seminar at the KHP is already sold out, so those expecting to purchase tickets at the door are going to disappointed.

        I'm looking forward to hearing feedback from those who are lucky enough to attend.

        Hope to see you Saturday tle [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree. I know that this will probably annoy some people, but I do like more tried and true methods and haven't really found for lack of a better word "gimicky" type training things to be something I am personally interested in doing or subscribing to in terms of methodology. I'm sure many people have success with it, but especially when it comes with such a hefty price tag I'm afraid I will pass. In all honesty, I am surprised at the pricing, not to mention the connection. I guess I feel let down also. I don't think training is exclusive to anyone, but I would much rather spend that kind of money focusing on my dressage, cross country, or stadium.

          Comment


          • #6
            $8000 - you've got to be kidding!! Does that include airfare for me AND my horse? As well as **** accommodations? And about 25 follow-up lessons?

            I learned just as much from sitting in the stands at Equine Affaire WATCHING what John Lyons did as I would have if it had been my horse in the ring with him. Basically the man is patient, quiet, and consistent, consistent, consistent.

            There - for free - the basic horse training ideas that most of these guys base their programs on.

            I'm appalled. And I won't be going, that's for sure.

            I saw the ads in one of the magazines I got recently, but didn't pick up on the price tag.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Yes, the thing tonight at KHP is sold out (according to the Parelli website). The website lists tonights thing as

              "The first ever event of its kind. Karen, David, Pat and Linda will explain and demonstrate how training with natural communication allows your horse to become calmer, smarter, braver and more athletic in everything he does."

              It's supposed to be from 6-9, so I guess in that respect, $30 isn't a terrible price (plus of course the price tag to get into Rolex itself for the day), but I wonder how much "show" is going to be part of it... meaning I spent 2 hours (?) watching one of his things at Equine Affaire and came away with some knowledge that could have been passed on in 20-30 minutes.. the rest was a good "show" (complete with music, lights, etc.).

              The weeklong things with Karen & David are listed as "includes cabin accommodations and horse board and feed."... so on top of the $4k or $8k price-tag it sounds like you also have to supply your own food (in addition to getting yourself and your horse out there).

              ************
              If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

              Survivor thoughts -- Episode 9 recap ... Sean definitely needs riding lessons. Buh-Bye Zoe you manly-girl you.

              GO RED WINGS!!!
              ************
              "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

              "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

              Comment


              • #8
                Pat Parelli is a good horseman and teacher. He is also real good at marketing. One of the things that has always gotten me going about this system is that it's nothing a hundred other horse trainers haven't been doing for a very long time.

                When I was having some dominance problems with my mare, a friend suggested a Parelli clinic in my town that weekend. It was $150 just to go watch. Then you were supposed to buy all this stuff (rope halter and special lead for another $150). Then you had to have a carrot stick for another $50 (apparently, not just any old whip will do). There was so much apparatus you had to have, it just seemed a bit odd to me.

                Then I saw a Frank Bell video. The man does EXACTLY the same thing. But he makes a point of stating how you can get the equipment for a lot cheaper (like at a junk yard for 5 bucks). It was one 45 minute video and it completely changed how I work with my horse and our relationship.

                I think all this work on getting the horses trust is humane and admirable. The marketing ploys are not. As Frank Bell would say, $4000 would be a lot to pay.
                We need health care reform, not insurance reform. Health care for ALL!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well I just checked the site and the do provide some food for you (as well as campfires and singalongs - oh, gee, there's the dealbreaker...) but the horsefeed is hay CUBES and grain, no hay in the pens. Whatever that means.

                  And you have to have all the requisite Parelli equipment.

                  I'm a bit surprised at the suddenness of this - the O'Connors have been touting their Parelli stuff only this year (as far as I've noticed) and it really seems they've jumped on board. It's not like they weren't doing well before they met this man.

                  How much would it cost to be a student at the VA farm for a week? - as an eventer I'd rather do that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gee the George Morris clinic near me was only $50.00 to audit and I have much more respect for him and am more impressed with his credentials.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      but perhaps a conversation went something like this:

                      Parelli: David, how much would you want to give a 2 week eventing clinic at my place?

                      David: Oh, 40K.

                      Parelli: NONSENSE!! you're worth at least $60K and I'll double that and keep half.
                      Member, Equine Artist Clique

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not choosing sides, but here's something to ponder:

                        My husband took a Parelli clinic in February with Parelli's right-hand man (or one of), Dave Ellis. It cost $435, ran three days, 7-8 hours a day. For that time, he and 15-19 other rider/horse pairs were in an arena working under the supervision of Ellis or an assistant. There were breaks.

                        Two weeks later, our trainer brought in Karen for her annual clinic. Cost was $325. That was for a two-day clinic, two hours per day.

                        If you break that down on a cost per hour basis, the Parelli clinic was a bit over $20 and the O'Connor clinic was a bit over $80. (I won't go into the equipment issue.)

                        Both clinics had organizers, who, I'm sure, were getting something out of it -- maybe a ride or two, maybe real money. I don't know.

                        I'm not trying to imply that one is better than the other for the money. But when I looked at the Parelli schedule, it was easier to justify the cost of the clinic my husband signed up for. Unfortunately, we both had to pass on Karen this year. 'Course, I might not have been too happy if he had signed up for both. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          wonder why the O'connors felt the need to jump on the Parrelli band wagon now!? Gold medal winner? Gee could they have done better with Pat before? I'm truly not into this Gotta buy all my stuff natural horsemanship way! Wonder how the other big time eventers feel about this?? I'm bewildered! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

                          "Those who would give up
                          essential Liberty, to
                          purchase a little temporary
                          Safety, deserve neither
                          Liberty nor Safety" Benjamin
                          Franklin, 1755

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I know quite a few people who, when it comes to animals, have more money than sense.
                            They are doing well in their careers and bought the house with small acreage and the horse that they always wanted. They know nothing about horses, but this one is a member of the family, like the dog, and they would like to take good care of it and not be afraid of it. (It seems really big sometimes!)
                            They are the perfect atttendees at a clinic like this. They have no contacts in the competitive horse world, the only people they know that have horses are just like them. They want to understand a little about the horse and it is much more important that it be docile and trustworthy than that it be able and willing to gallop fast and leap tall buildings.
                            They won't go to the local free/cheap clinic sponsored by a vet or a feed store because they firmly believe that the more you pay for something - the better it is.
                            They would be more than willing to spend this amount to hear Olympic gold medal winners tell them how to take care of the horse, even if they are not exactly sure what the gold medals were for.
                            David and Karen may just be trying to make a living - they may be trying to reach a wider audience, who knows. But there is a market for it.
                            I would hope that eventers wouldn't waste their time or money.
                            If I attend a clinic with either of the O'Connors (and I have audited Karen's clinic several times) it will be an eventing clinic, which costs hundreds, not thousands, of dollars and it will be to hear them tell me how to ride a sport horse better.
                            I think that many people in the sport horse world work long hours and eat Campbell's soup to support a horse that is worth more than the car or even the house and who lives better than the owner.
                            We forget that there are other kinds of horse owners and lots of them have money - and I'm not talking about the hunter world. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                            BarbB

                            charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique
                            Nina's Story
                            Epona Comm on FB

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As far as the costs go, I think that is pretty well straight forward in that you are paying more for the experience and information. My big gripe with the joint clinic venture and a reason I would not want to go is that if I cliniced with the O'Connors, I would expect and want to learn about eventing--not natural horsemanship. I am willing to pay for that. From how I see it, Parelli has gotten the endorsement of a gold medalist and that will bring in the bucks.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I am a little surprised that the O'Connors chose to associate themselves with Parelli, who is known as more of a marketer than anything else within NH circles. His program is, as someone else pointed out, designed for people who have $$$$ and who are fairly new to the horsey world, or are unaware (or don't care) that there are cheaper ways of getting the same results.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Several people wondered why all of a sudden the O'Connors--arguably at the pinnacle of the sport--are aligning themselves with Parelli. You'd think the successes they've had to date would qualify them to teach anyone just about ANYTHING without needing another "name" to latch onto. Looks like they're trying to cash in on that Gold Medal, but why use another "name"?

                                  It's gross.
                                  Click here before you buy.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I went to the parelli thing on friday! i was w/ Linda Wachtmestier and she oringally called up and they were sold out. But she went and talked to karen and she got us VIP tickets. so we had a great view. Personally i thought it was great in the beginning but 3hours was just way too long and thoose uncomfotable seats. and there were no breaks at all, the actual parrelli stuff wasr great but then they started telling their life storys and it was like okay to much! 1 hour all about linda's crazy aus TB! I think it was great at parts but had to much promotion of their products and other semniars. basicly it was just a preview and a way to sell you, to fly out to colorado for 4,000 and see them do it four 2 weeks. uhhh noo to much for me. I went to another o'connor clinic parrelli thing last june at the VA horse center "An Eevning w/the O'Connor's" i thought that was alot better, small more intresting and interactive.

                                    but it was still a great evening, i only fell asleep twice during it! 40 winks!

                                    PRAY FOR KIM! HOLD THE RAIN!DANANIMALS IN 1ST!
                                    TopBritYR [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                                    17 days and counting until Virginia CCI* starts for me......ahhh!
                                    Invest in the Journey, not the Destination
                                    \"Some People are born great, some people are great, and some people achive greatness.\"

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      We thought it was a 3 hour infomercial--and we never got any information! Very disappointing! We kept getting told how it was going to benefit our horses but they never demonstrated what their techniques really were nor how they worked. It was fun to see Karen and David do a line in a decreasing number of strides, and to see David jump around with just a saddle and neck rope, but I'm still not just real sure how that is supposed to benefit MY horse.

                                      I was appalled to see Linda and Pat Parelli jumping their horses with no helmets or any type of safety equipment (especially at a demonstration/clinic associated with the Rolex International 3 Day event). I was appalled to see them demonstrate jumping over a folding, unreinforced picnic table. Linda very nearly fell off twice while jumping bareback with a halter and no protective headgear whatsoever. They were working closely up behind their hores, flapping sticks and ropes and pulling on their horse's tails with never a remark that it shouldn't just be tried at home. What sort of example were they trying to set for the general public, many of whom look up to the Parelli name? *UGH*

                                      I'm not arguing that the things they can get the horses to do were cool, but we never got any info as to how they did it, or why they did it, or how to avoid getting your teeth kicked down your throat while working in close quarters with the horse.

                                      The eight of us were not at all impressed, nor were we pleased to have paid $30 apiece. We guessed there were at least 200 people in attendence, and at $30/head---that's a pretty fair chunk of change!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        is that waving of the plastic bag attached to a whip a Parelli thing? Oh god, I can't believe that karen and david have gotten themselves tied into that crap!

                                        I, as a PC alum went to our local pc to help one day-watched from the sidelines as some Parelli moron was teaching these kids to whap a carrot bag attached to a dressage whip in their horse's faces! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] OK, I give up, what's the point of this exercise? To make the horse headshy? It worked. Then they had the kids facing their horses and shaking the hell out of the lead ropes, making these poor freaked out old troopers raise their heads wondering WHAT they had done...then they backed up all worried looking. Ok, what's the point of THAT??? Later I saw a PC kid in our barn do the shaking thing to a young mare who was being ignored, so moved a few steps, and this kid started shaking like mad....I told her she was NOT to use that EVER....pay attention to your horse, expect behavior, but don't punish them when you ignore them.

                                        Back to the O'C thing, I am saddened to see them get involved with that. I worked for karen many years ago, and she is full of common sense and good basic riding skills which stand the test of time. I don't get the tie in to the commercialism. Went and saw Linda T-J and Gowani PonyBoy and Clinton Anderson at an expo, and they all are into the "buy my gimmicks", they will help you the fastest. Why are the O'C's who KNOW how long it takes to properly bring along a good horse buying into the quick and dirty training schemes??? I just don't get it. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

                                        The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
                                        Ellipses users clique ...
                                        TGFPT,HYOOTGP

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