• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Tragedies at Southern Pines

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Tragedies at Southern Pines

    Last edited by Fairview Horse Center; Jan. 26, 2014, 02:51 PM.

  • #2
    Whoa. I don't know who you have been talking to, but I have definately been taught to see a distance. You might be refering to the fact that riding cross country, eventers typically don't look for distances but rather ride the rythem and ride to the base of the fence. The base is the safest place to leave from when jumping a solid obstacle, but you had better believe that we don't get there by accident. Riding to the base is a skill like any other.

    Also, eventers are taught to balance and collect their horses, to stay balanced in the air, to sit back and tight, to ride forward. These, too, are basics.

    I'm sorry you had a long night, but please don't attack eventers across the board or try to pick a fight. It's not constructive, it's not helpful, and it is not fair to those of us who work very hard at riding well.

    I'm attaching a picture of my mare and I at an event last summer. Please let me know if you don't think I've mastered the basics enough to ride safely. --Jess


    • #3
      OK, let me get this straight.....Mark Todd is the only one?

      Superheroes of the universe, unite!

      The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde


      • #4
        Pass that box over here...

        IMHO, you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Granted, they're both fruit that grow on trees, but still....

        If you're talking about SJ, then I would agree with you. Eventers by and large could use a dose of the H/J circuit in their riding. however, when you start talking about riding XC, you're dealing with a whole new ballgame. When H/J riders can "pick their spot" to a ditch & wall, or water complex, or coffin or drop where the horse can't see the landing until 2 strides out while galloping (not cantering!) over uneven terrain... then we'll talk. Until then, find a new peeve please... because eventers are taught when on XC, the basis to any good jump is to maintain the appropriate rhythm and balance for the fence and LET THE HORSE find the jump. Yes there are times when you need to "get him in close"... but again that is more a factor of the rhythm and balance than it is being able to count from 8 strides away. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

        PS. JAGold... great pic! Time to start learning that auto release though... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

        If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

        Survivor thoughts -- Episode 3 recap... OMG!! NOT HUNTER!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] And the tribal suicide continues... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Remember we're on Wednesday this week!
        "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

        "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


        • #5
          TLE--yes, but this post was about the basics [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

          I do agree that a following hand is generally useful for cross country, but this mare (who was 15 when that picture was taken and not likely to change her jumping style at that point) was very high headed. While a properly executed automatic release should not restrict a high-headed jumper or affect that style of jumping any more than it affects a horse who is more technically correct, my trainer and various clinicians felt that a crest release was appropriate in this situation.



          • #6
            There is no such thing as a spot. There are an infinite number of places from which a horse can jump. Riding an appropriate pace that is balanced will get you over every time. When you start looking for a spot and start fiddling with your horse, you usually get into trouble. Ride forward, and ride the rhythm and you'll usually be fine.

            That being said, comfortable "spots" do exist, but I think it is ignorant to say that eventers are not "taught" to find them. Many eventers start out h/j and then end up eventing. Many eventers regularly ride with h/j trainers for help in stadium.


            Why can't my horse just be normal?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]


            • #7
              Oy vey. Get some sleep. I agree with TLE that many eventers could use some work on their SJ, but just because we don't count 3-2-1 on X-C doesn't mean we are looking for a distance. Oh, and another thing. Saying that 10-year olds on ponys can count out 6 even, 10-foot strides down the outside line to their next fence is TOTALLY not the same thing as galloping up and down hills. But don't think that we don't know how to get to the base of our fences.


              • #8
                Normally I do not get involved in these discussions, but I find the original post to be ignorant and offensive. I can give a long list of examples of riders who are trained to see distances and do it very well. This is the basis of most SJ sessions at clinics that I have been involved in. Also included are exercises to compress and lengthen strides between related distances. Although the practice is different on XC, the basic technique is the same. If anyone thinks that upper level riders galloping into fences are not seeing a distance 3-5 strides out, they are kidding themselves. Lack of sleep is not an excuse for an attack based on opinion rather than fact. Do your homework.


                • #9
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Eventers don't "look for distances" because they don't know how. No one ever taught them that it was the basic requirement of jumping. They ride rhythm, and if they don't "happen" to be at the base "in stride" they "pat the ground" to add another tiny stride so they can take of from the base. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Fairview... do you have the slightest idea of how ridiculous, rude and flat out prejudice this sounds? Not to mention the previous comment about how 10yos can do this and that but those poor uneducated eventers... PULLEEZE! Give us all a break and go get some sleep. Others have commented about how a "spot" on XC works... it just IS NOT the same as H/J.

                  JAGOLD -- nah... I was just joking around with you. Really, it's a great photo and you look wonderfully in tune with the horse. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                  If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

                  Survivor thoughts -- Episode 3 recap... OMG!! NOT HUNTER!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] And the tribal suicide continues... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Remember we're on Wednesday this week!
                  "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                  "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


                  • #10

                    I just posted a comment on the other thread about the unfairness of generalizing...

                    I ride jumpers. I've seen great riders of all disciplines. One of the best I've ever met at riding a horse effectively and accurately to a fence, is a former eventer turned jumper.

                    It seems to meet that eventing places a premium on rhythm -- makes sense since a horse can jump just about anything from anywhere if they are galloping in a good rhythm. True in jumpers too.

                    Hunters also place a premium on rhythm -- it seems that a good, consistent cantering rhythm results in a nice, even round.

                    See -- not so far apart. I think y'all can learn a lot from each other.


                    • #11
                      TLE -- fair enough [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] I think the topic has me feeling a bit defensive!

                      I don't really want to get involved in comparing the abilities of one group of riders to another, mostly because generalizing and assuming tends to make an ASS of U and ME. Riders are individuals, there are good and bad in every dicipline.

                      However, it seems relevant to note that a number of eventers participated in HITS this winter and did very well. How many jumper riders want to come out and play our game with us? --Jess

                      PS. I have ridden pony hunters and showed a small junior in high school. I did a bit of age-group eq -- on my event horse. Fairview, how many eventers DO you know, when you say that you don't know many who have been taught to find a spot?


                      • #12
                        OK, this thread has me more irritated than finding out that FLA is not allow gays to adopt children...eirrrrghe

                        OK, here's an exert from Steuart Pittman's web page about a demonstration he saw. You don't think these people can "find a spot"??? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]


                        Superheroes of the universe, unite!

                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde


                        • #13
                          FHC, if you properly ride the rhythm to the fence (this means you have enough impulsion), you will almost always meet the fence at an appropriate distance.

                          This 'patting the ground' business is something completely new to me. If you mean that eventers think it's ok to chip, I personally don't know who would agree with that. Like in the tiny h/j classes, you can get away with it at BN or even N, but this would be extremely dangerous at a solid fence at 3' or higher. You would more than 'pat' the ground and so might the horse.

                          I do both straight SJ and eventing. I have a French trainer who demands that you ride the rhythm and correctly (this means enough pace and impulsion always). This is how he rides showjumpers at the World Cup level. We do not pick spots, but we do see distances and we keep riding forward. You know if the distance is good or bad and then you get the heck out of your horse's way to let him make the best jump possible.

                          As for stride counting, it's like sheep counting unless you know how to longitudinally adjust a horse well before the fence. I can count from 16 strides out, I can count from 8 strides out -- this is because I've developed an eye. But if I want to do 8, I'd better tell that to the horse when I start counting from 8. Then you ride the rhythm to the fence. I'm not looking for 'spots', I'm looking for my next fence.

                          One thing I'd like to add is in eventing, courses are usually up to height. Not so in my experience in SJ -- at A shows, we've had classes listed as 3'6" to 3'9" in which no fence is over 3'. And God help these AA riders if the fences were any higher, but I guess they go home thinking they're competitive at the 3'6"-3'9" level, and they're trainers continue to let them believe it.


                          • #14
                            Most event riders I know and I've hired some to do the training of my young horses are excellent at knowing the distances. But your BRAG about H/J kids knowing the distances may apply to the show ring on the flat - but the majority of those same kids couldn't manage a course outside on uneven terrain with NON-horse show looking jumps if their life depended on it. It's a lot easier to gage a distance on the flat in a ring relative to a contained area. - Not so outside, cross country at a GALLOP.

                            Let's be fair. When horses are injured or die it's a sad thing but unless their was some human error or negligence - it's going to happen. Stress fractures can happen on horses - of course they are often more devestating when they are galloping cross country than trotting in a ring. Horses hitting a fence wrong and dying....well GEE - we had a huge discussion last year over a horse that hit a pipe and was impaled in FLA last winter during a lesson given by George Morris.!!!


                            • #15
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>However, it seems relevant to note that a number of eventers participated in HITS this winter and did very well. How many jumper riders want to come out and play our game with us? --Jess<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              OHHHHH... I like that!! Great idea Jess. Any takers? Fairview?

                              If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

                              Survivor thoughts -- Episode 3 recap... OMG!! NOT HUNTER!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] And the tribal suicide continues... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] Remember we're on Wednesday this week!
                              "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                              "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike


                              • #16
                                I just wanted to say that I HAVE been taught by several event riders to see my spot, counting down from 3, 6 or even 8 strides out. To name a few of these instructors, Denny Emerson, Wash Bishop, Jack Legoff, Suzi Gornall, Lucinda Green and Jane Hamlin. By the way, I also watched Denny ride a couple of different horses counting aloud his strides from 12 out, and EVERY time he nailed it perfectly. So Mark Todd is the only one?


                                • #17
                                  I don't know what eventers you've been talking to, but I definitely learned my distances. I agree with tle that eventers could learn a lot from jumper riders, and thus I attended many clinics with top jumper riders and took an occasional lesson from a top GP jumper at a nearby barn.

                                  One reason you might see a lot of horses take off from funny distances in XC is because we are dealing with a WHOLE heck of a lot more than "finding the perfect distance." Not to belittle hunters, I used to ride hunters, but it's a lot easier when your course is "inside outside outside inside", and you know there are supposed to be 6 strides here, 5 here (depending on your horses/pony's stride, of course). On the XC course we are dealing with uneven terrain, hills, water, banks, drops, bounces, etc and trying to make time. I, not being a top rider (I have only done 2 3-days) tried very hard and was taught to collect before the fence and approach it in the middle while still having momentum so as to find a good spot. But often in trying to hard to find that spot, I totally got in my horse's way. If I were not on him and he were pointed at that fence, he could quite easily find a spot on his own, or if not, hop right over it anyways. He saved my butt many times when i messed with him too much trying to find a spot, he NEVER stopped once in 6 years, and he pulled us out of sticky situations that i put us in.

                                  I agree with you that distances are something that need to be taught, but I think that it just shows how ignorant you are to say that Mark Todd is the only eventer who knows how to find distances.

                                  By the way, Jess, your mare is SOOO adorable, i want her!


                                  • #18
                                    I'll let TLE defend herself... but I think this is an expression used to reinforce the need for rythym, forwardness, pace... it does not mean sit up there and do nothing.

                                    I think this thread is really ignorant. I'm done posting.


                                    • #19
                                      yes, riley. our horses are more capable (at least mine was) than we give them credit for. but that does not mean sit up and do nothing. rhythm, forwardness, pace, and collection (impulsive collection, was KEY for me and my hot little tb).

                                      Cospi- same here! spent time with Wash and Jimmy Wofford. Counted strides, etc. Why would anyone say mark todd is the only on.

                                      Jess- Awesome. Lets see some of those jumper riders come tackle one of our xc course and put in a great dressage test (ok, so they might smoke us in the sj phase, but not necessarily!)


                                      • #20
                                        a clinic with Denny...He emphasized finding your spots and counting strides the entire time!

                                        "Just call me mint jelly cuz i'm on the lamb!--Grandpa