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Training Rider vs. Training Amateur

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  • Training Rider vs. Training Amateur

    I noticed that Holly Hill offered TR and TA divisions this spring. I know that we are asked to identify the divisions we want to compete in when we enter an event (we get three choices and are asked to rank them in order of desirability). My question is, what is the difference between TR and TA? I know that you have to have an amateur card for TA but wouldn't most TRs be amateurs? Anyway, is one division more suitable for a middle age amateur who only rides on week-ends, but is fairly successful at the level shown? I'm trying to figure out the most appropriate division for us when both are offered. (I once went to a jumper show to school and entered the schooling classes but later figured out that I was competing against pros and amateurs whereas had I entered the child/adult classes I would have been in with only amateurs. That said, those kids can kick some serious butt!) Thanks for any insight offered.

  • #2
    One can be a professional and still not be competing at the upper levels, ergo qualifying for "TR".

    I always choose the "amateur" category and have yet to ever go to a show that offers one! So I always end up in "Horse" or "Open". I actually am re-qualified to be a Novice or Training rider again since it's been so long since I've gone Prelim--sort of like regaining your virginity, I guess, LOL!--but I always put down Amateur-Horse-Open in that order.
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    • Original Poster

      Hadn't thought about a professional riding only at lower levels (below prelim), but if I had, I would have thought they would be in the open division or the horse division if the horse was inexperienced. I just always assumed that TR was for folks with little or no experience above training and hadn't considered that a professional could fit that category. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out why I would choose one division over the other when I qualify for both.


      • #4
        I personally believe "Rider" divisions SHOULD be for people new to the sport/level, but the rules don't necessarily make it mandatory to move on up and out of the Rider division when you've become experienced. There are a lot of people who have been showing, and winning, at a level for YEARS who still go in "Rider" divisions at that level. I think that's sort of cheesy. I've always thought one should have to move out of Rider divisions after so many years, or so many ribbons, or points, etc. but that sentiment is usually shot down due to it being too complicated or because people should be able to do whatever they like and the rules allow it, etc. etc.

        So for me, I just don't. Makes me feel superior, I guess. (if you've seen me ride, you'd know why this is QUITE the joke)
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        • #5
          There are plenty of people that are eligible for TR but not TA. Some of them are true professionals that only compete at the lower levels. But many of them are only "technically" professionals- for instance they get paid for mucking stalls,and occaisionally ride another boarder's horse. If they truly are Training Riders there is no reason to enter only Open.

          There are plenty of people who are eligible for TA, but not TR. Usually legal amateurs who are also competing another horse at the higher levels. Or who moved up a level and have dropped back because they wer not comfortable at the higher level. If they truly are Amateurs, there is no reason to enter only Open.

          chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


          • Original Poster

            Thanks for the input Deltawave. I guess that's why the amateur division exists but, for some reason, it is hardly ever offered. I've seen multiple TR divisions at an event with 15 - 18 riders in each one but rarely is an amateur rider division offered. Maybe folks just don't select it when they enter? Anyway, thanks.


            • #7
              In fact I think even though I have hit a few prelims I can still ride in TR.

              I wish the USEA would use a point system like other organizations. So many points and you get your rear kicked out of the rider division. Or with Horse, so many points for the horse and out to Open with you!

              I usually go with Sr. : )
              Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!


              • #8
                I'm a TR (Sr too, sigh). I'm one of those that do teach, but only at a very low level. Actually I'm not really teaching at all anymore (I used to have 20 or so students, mostly beginners and back-in-the-saddle adults), except one advanced beginner adult student who just wants help with her opinionated mare now and again, and some tune-ups for the local small multi-discipline show. I also teach a Down-syndome girl and her mother on their own horse a couple of times a month.

                That's enough for me to have to call myself a pro, though in reality I'm every bit an amateur otherwise when it comes to showing.


                • #9

                  wait.. now i'm confused.

                  Soo.. even though you've gone Prelim you can still ride in TR??? I though the "rider" divisions were for those who are new to the level or have not competed at more than 3 at that level or have not moved UP to the next level.

                  Or did i just completely make all of that up???



                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AlterStrength View Post
                    wait.. now i'm confused.

                    Soo.. even though you've gone Prelim you can still ride in TR??? I though the "rider" divisions were for those who are new to the level or have not competed at more than 3 at that level or have not moved UP to the next level.

                    Or did i just completely make all of that up???

                    You just missed the crucial phrase "within the prvious 24 months". So if it has been more than 2 years sisnce you went Prelim, you can go Training Rider.

                    Also, TR is for people who have not competed more than twice ABOVE the current level in the last 24 months. So, once you get to Training, you can continue to compete at Training Rider forever, as long as you don't move up to Prleim.

                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                      Or with Horse, so many points for the horse and out to Open with you!

                      once upon a time they did. Horses were grade 3,2, and 1. You could drop down from the higher grade to the next lowest in an open division but that was it. To go a whole grade below..EG from grade 1 to grade 3 required permission and an offical down grade that was published. Usually for 6 month or 1 year. You then had to apply again.


                      • #12
                        Yes, there is a time factor which allows you to regenerate your Rider qualifications for a level. I could actually do Novice Rider, technically, after mid-June this year since I'll have done only two recognized Trainings within 24 months of that date. Doesn't mean I will.

                        I wonder if a lot of people are put off listing "Amateur" as their choice because they believe there's some special "card" they need to carry, or proof they need to provide? There isn't (other than listing it on your USEA membership) but the word does seem fraught with Significance.
                        Last edited by deltawave; Apr. 28, 2009, 11:33 AM. Reason: can't count OR spell
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tlw View Post
                          Thanks for the input Deltawave. I guess that's why the amateur division exists but, for some reason, it is hardly ever offered. I've seen multiple TR divisions at an event with 15 - 18 riders in each one but rarely is an amateur rider division offered. Maybe folks just don't select it when they enter? Anyway, thanks.

                          I qualify for TA but not TR. I also don't typically pick TA. My order of preference is typically Horse-Ammy-Open. I personally feel more competitive with the Pros on their green horse when I'm on a green horse...than against other Ammies who are not on green horses Also, I have found that the Horse divisions often run first and I'm usually trying to get done quickly! Sorry to the other ammies....
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **


                          • #14
                            Every time I try to "game" the system by picking the division I think will give me the best times, they decide to add my division's dressage on Friday or something!
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