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3 Pre-Trainings to go Training - new Canadian rule

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    3 Pre-Trainings to go Training - new Canadian rule

    Another new stupid "safety" rule for Canadians. I know this has been mentioned on the board, but I hadn't really thought through it until now.

    The Horse Trials Participation Policy 2009 from the Canadian Eventing Competitions Committee states:

    "In the 2009 season Training & above competitors must show that they have the required skill level to compete successfully in that division through completion of events at the previous level."

    The new requirements to go Training are:

    "- Open to all competitors and horses (not necessarily as a
    combination) who have completed a minimum of 3 events at
    the Pre-Training level, achieving a CAN Qualifying result in a
    minimum of 2 events."

    I sent an email to Equine Canada asking for clarification of the rule. Here is what I got back:

    "The qualifying scores have been brought in as a safety measure to ensure that riders and horses are capable of upgrading safely."

    I can see several problems with this.

    1) Horse & rider from the USA coming to Canada to compete in Training? I'm guessing this rule only applies to Canadians. [Same frustration as the new US rule about 2 rider falls]

    2) Presumably a Canadian horse and rider can hop the border and do a full season of Training, do a Training 3-Day, upgrade to Prelim... etc. Is Equine Canada then going to refuse their entry unless they show they have done their 3 Pre-Trainings? What if you go across the border and successfully complete ONE Training with a qualifying score?

    3) They have no time frame within which the qualifications need to be gained, and don't say whether it's sufficient for someone who's been competing at a level higher to effectively have qualified. Presumably my Dad who's gone Training in 1978 and 1998 is qualified. If I ride his horse in 3 Pre-Trainings, can he then hop on and go Training?

    4) Doesn't prevent a horse who's done 3 PT and rider who's done 3 PT from forming a new partnership and starting at Training. And this could be a 12-year old rider on a 4 year old horse, mind you!

    5) Qualified doesn't equal competent!!! The way the email I got was phrased, it almost sounds as if they believe that if you've done 3 Pre-Trainings, you will be "capable of upgrading safely." The biggest problem I see with new combinations at Training level is excessive speed. How does showing they can complete 3 Pre-Trainings address this?

    Please give me your input. I'm thinking of sending my concerns to Equine Canada. Would like to find out HOW this rule got through and how to get rid of it.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

    #2
    Equine Canada should familiarize themselves with the geographical and climatological restrictions that are a big part of competing in Canada. Some provinces have 0 horse trials, others have a handful in the summer.

    So unless you live in southern Ontario or southern BC, good luck to you! And even in BC, it's not like you have much to choose from.

    But this rule -- like other policies with this particular NGB -- is just another indication that they'd prefer to keep eventing within their own little clique.

    The appearance of safety is often the opposite of safety. It's hard to wean people off the appearances bandwagon when that all they really care about anyway.

    Comment


      #3
      I've hashed this out a lot... so I'll be brief.

      I don't mind making the rider qualify. That's not a horrible thing.

      I strongly disagree with making the horse qualify.

      Comment


        #4
        I haven't read the rule, but while strict enforcement may cause unfairness as with any rule, I really think the rule is irrelevant to 95% of the membership.
        Most of us will do at least 3 Pre-training (Novice) level events before even considering moving up to Training anyway, and for that matter probably several events at Entry (BN) level before moving up to Pre-Training.
        Those affected by such a rule will be pros bringing along young horses and ammys who buy an upper level horse and want to start at Training level.

        edited to address JER's point ... yes, I am in Ontario, and did not intend to address the situation where lower level events are not as plentiful.

        Comment


          #5
          I couldn't agree more with both of you (JER and JazzyLady).

          Rule-change proposals are due May 30. So basically, there isn't even time to see if this new rule "works" (I'm sure that's the excuse they'll use) before deciding to go forward with a rule-change proposal.

          And it seems this one is quasi-retroactive as well, since you can't enter a 2009 Training level event without doing your 3 Pre-Trainings.
          Blugal

          You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

          Comment


            #6
            They can't say anything if you go over the boarder and run your young horse training there.

            Comment


              #7
              JenJ, I disagree. The rule will affect those who:

              - live in an area with few events and/or
              - compete in multiple discplines
              - have limited finances
              - are competent enough to school their horses and know when they're ready to go T
              - have been eliminated for technical reasons
              Blugal

              You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

              Comment


                #8
                Jazzy, while I concur, it doesn't help much if you (for instance) do the 10-hour drive to do a Training in the US, but then can't compete in your local (3 hour drive) mini-event at Training.
                Blugal

                You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think rider qualification at the lower levels makes sense. Qualifications don't guarantee that a rider will be prepared to move up, but if a rider has completed a fair number of events at the previous level without mishap, that is certainly a better indicator of potential success at the next level than no competition record at all is, or that a record with a series of errors is. Given the culture of the sport (many riders riding at the lower levels without benefiting from the regular guidance of a good eventing trainer, and often without xc schooling of any kind - all of which I read about on this BB, frequently), it isn't unreasonable, in my mind, to ask riders to demonstrate that they can get around cleanly a few times before moving up.

                  I do think it would be nice if the qualifications were reciprocal, so that US events would count towards Canadian qualifications and vice versa, so long as the technical specifications for the levels that are given reciprocity are the same.
                  Treat Jockey for Spellbound and Smidgeon

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I, for one, think it's a rather stupid rule, just not well thought through. The difference between pre-training and training, is a lot bigger than just the jump size and speed. My experiences between the two divisions is that pre-training is mostly single jumps at max or lower that are set in relatively simple places. Training there are more combinations, the jumps are set in trickier spots, and you need to be way more organized as a rider to do well. I think it would make more sense for a rider to have some kind of proof of schooling at that level with a competent instructor, such as doing one of the horse trials organized events such as are run in the spring. That could go on record that the student worked with which coach, at which level, with comments from said coach as to rider's ability or not. I think for the most part, people show their incompetence at training level by run-outs or stops, not so much falls. I haven't heard of anybody dying at training level yet.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      us rider

                      So if I understand it....When I go to ON this summer, as a US rider, I will be able to event at the training level. Right?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by sunhawk View Post
                        I haven't heard of anybody dying at training level yet.
                        This has happened in the US.
                        Treat Jockey for Spellbound and Smidgeon

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Yikes.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Christopher Reeve's accident was at training level.
                            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                            Comment


                              #15
                              But would those accidents have been prevented by this rule? I have yet to see any evidence that this rule will improve safety.
                              Blugal

                              You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                              Comment


                                #16
                                time limit on qualifications

                                Regarding the time limit on qualifications - According to Corrie Yeoman's clarification on EMG only qualifying scores from the previous two calendar years count - so a former UL rider who has returned to the sport after a couple of years off has to requalify to run training.

                                Blugal - as I suspect you already know, the governing bodies of the sport have been making rules all over the place with little or no evidence the new rules will do anything to improve safety. It's all about making themselves FEEL like they're doing something about it...or LOOKING like they are, when in fact, nothing has changed.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Blugal View Post
                                  But would those accidents have been prevented by this rule? I have yet to see any evidence that this rule will improve safety.

                                  I agree with you. Not a fan of the rule....but am a fan of knowing and respecting the dangers.

                                  You can die or get hurt any time you swing your leg over a horse...and even Training level eventing is dangerous. Hence it is important to take your time and make sure you and your horse have the training and skill level.

                                  But life is dangerous....and I do think I have more risk driving to the event than riding in the event.
                                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                    I agree with you. Not a fan of the rule....but am a fan of knowing and respecting the dangers.

                                    You can die or get hurt any time you swing your leg over a horse...and even Training level eventing is dangerous. Hence it is important to take your time and make sure you and your horse have the training and skill level.

                                    But life is dangerous....and I do think I have more risk driving to the event than riding in the event.
                                    Yes, exactly. Even Novice can be dangerous (someone was killed in 2004). You do the best you can to mitigate risk but realize that you must live with some risk.

                                    The question lies in 1) how much risk is a rider or NGB willing to live with and 2) whether a proposed rule/ practice actually reduces risk.
                                    SportHorseRiders.com
                                    Taco Blog
                                    *T3DE 2010 Pact*

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Just another outrageous rule we have came up with. What next... Perhaps we will be wearing out xc vests in dressage and stadium. I shouldn't give them any ideas

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        More likely they will make us wear our vests to pick up our dressage tests. Walking through stabling and the parking areas can be dangerous you know!
                                        Blugal

                                        You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

                                        Comment

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