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what would happen

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  • what would happen

    This weekend right after I crossed the finish on xc I was told to go to the officials. Theys said I had missed a jump. I remember jumping it as it was a new jump in a place where there had been a different type. I was thinking I must keep my leg on as she might look at it. We discussed it a while and they said they would check it out and I went to take care of my horse. I went back later and all was OK. They said my number was called for something but it had been misunderstood and I was OK. I was not eliminated! I told them I was cancelling my appointment at the alzheimers dr., I am 58 and thought I was going crazy. Did I make all those preparations on approach and then just go around it? Now, I look at the pictures that have just been posted. And guess what the last picture is...we were jumping the jump in question. What would have happened if they had written it down wrong, confused me with someone or something, and eliminated me for it. Then...the pictures show I jumped it as I said? Just wondering if that has ever happened. Now I have an answer when people say why do eventers where all those bright colors on xc. No longer am I going to be another bay horse, white pad, rider in nondescript clothes with black vest. I am buying one of those cool bicyle shirts people were wearing and a bright pad to go with it. I want to be sure I am noticed as I jump.
    Last edited by flea; Apr. 6, 2009, 12:32 AM.

  • #2
    Sounds like the jump judges were out to lunch at this HT!!!

    I know that volunteers are hard to come by. In this case, I would've sent an email/phone/snail mail with a link to the picture....probably would bring this up to USEA/USEF, too!


    • Original Poster

      No, the jump judge was not out to lunch, I don't believe he/she reported that I missed it. A call over the radio was misunderstood and it was all clarified within a few minutes. There is no need to send emails, or contact anyone, I was not eliminated after all. This is an extremely well run, fun event with great people. I have been for years and will continue to go for years. I was just pondering if anyone knew of that happening and how it was resolved. I better check my original post to show that I was NOT eliminated.


      • #4
        From someone who has JJed several times, I can tell you what usually happens: when you were informed you had missed a jump (and would be TE'd), but you assured the official you had not missed it, the TD probably got involved and checked with the JJ where the call was made. The JJ needs to write a good description of each rider/horse combo that goes thru, and the TD should be able to confirm or not as in your case, if you missed the jump. If they had not corrected the miscommunication, you could have requested an inquiry based on the photo of you jumping that jump.

        In one of the area championships, I know of competitors who made an inquiry against another rider for using a whip in the dressage phase. Apparently the dressage judge did not eliminate that rider right after the test, but photos published during the event were used as proof and that rider was eliminated before the next phase.
        "Another member of the Barefoot Eventers Clique"


        • #5
          I didin't realize you could use pics or video for protest. I tried to do that a few years (maybe 2001) back when I received some unfair marks on several movements of my dressage test and the TD said that they cannot use video to clarify.

          I was E'd last year at my 5 y/o first HT. He bobbled over the chain in D.
          The judge kicked me out of the arena. I went right to my mother to see the video and he had only bobbled out with two legs.

          I should have carried on like nothing happened but I stopped and asked the judge if he was out instead.
          She was actually really rude about it!
          If I had finished the test, she would most likely have told me afterward that I was E'd. And then at least then I would have had a score and could have protested. But with no score I was SOL.

          Ya live and learn!
          Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!


          • #6
            Originally posted by clm08 View Post
            In one of the area championships, I know of competitors who made an inquiry against another rider for using a whip in the dressage phase. Apparently the dressage judge did not eliminate that rider right after the test, but photos published during the event were used as proof and that rider was eliminated before the next phase.

            This happened at championships here last year. They went thru all the training ride pictures and eliminated those who carried whips.
            “And live like you ain’t afraid to die. And don’t be scared, just enjoy your ride.” Chris Ledoux ~ The Ride


            • #7
              It can happen and it won't get changed....

              AT Buddy's last event, four years ago, we were headed to the last fence on a ridge which would actually require an almost dog-leg turn around a stand of trees to approach the fence - no problem as there was plenty of room to do that (this was Novice). Buddy prefered cantering on his right lead, but always automatically changed around turns (very nice for me ). Up until the turn is made the horse doesn't see the fence so its a bit of a surprise yet at the same time, will test balance and willingness to go forward, especially since you're also supported by the turn being TOWARDS rather than away from home. So, as Buddy cantered into the turn on his right rein, he switched to his left lead, then saw the fence, and switched back to his right lead. In a dressage test the judge would have probably scored the change as very clean but needed more push from behind. I was ELATED - Buddy jumped beautifully.

              Jump judges - two teenagers - said he stopped. We have the whole thing on video. I challenged the call with the TD, but she wouldn't overturn it.
              dropped from 4th to 8th. I still treasure that brown ribbon and the entire ride.
              ~ it no longer matters what level I do, as long as I am doing it..~ with many thanks, to Elizabeth Callahan


              • #8
                Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                I didin't realize you could use pics or video for protest. I tried to do that a few years (maybe 2001) back when I received some unfair marks on several movements of my dressage test and the TD said that they cannot use video to clarify.
                Video can be used as a witness. The official has to determine its credibility just like reports given by human witnesses. Occasionally videos have been "doctored" to "prove" a claim!


                • #9
                  Originally posted by flutie1 View Post
                  Video can be used as a witness. The official has to determine its credibility just like reports given by human witnesses. Occasionally videos have been "doctored" to "prove" a claim!
                  Also "some competitors" have used videos from an earlier competition, at the same site, for their 'proof". The Officials noted the full foliage (Spring/Summer) or the lack/color of foliage (Fall/Winter) and the different x-c shirt worn by the competitor.
                  However I have reviewed video as part of the 'fact finding' mission.
                  "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                  Courtesy my cousin Tim


                  • #10
                    wow. amazing.

                    this crosses with the thread on Good Sportsmanship.

                    some people are unbelieveable!
                    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!


                    • #11
                      Well I had a similar thing happen. I went to check the scores and I was E'd on XC - but had jumped clear. I talked to the TD who said I missed a jump. I remembered jumping them all... they told me to go out and walk the course as they thought it was at the ditch (a swale which is impossible to go around before getting into the next field). The TD was really nice about it, and luckily even though I was convinced I had gone clear, I didn't get worked up, because when I walked it, I realized I'd jumped the wrong section of swale, just jumping on the wrong side of my flag.

                      Heaven help me, it was BN and I guess the jumps weren't scary enough for me to ride the right line!!! Usually I recite my course "brush, steps, drop to skinny, vertical, ditch in the trees" etc. but it's really hard to do that at BN "log, coop, house, log, coop, house, swale (jump the part with some stone dust in the landing?!?)"

                      You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


                      • #12
                        Must be the new age of photoshop. I have become so cynical, it's kind of sad.
                        I JJ at a horse trial Saturday. No problems with my fence but a rider was E'd for missing a fence. She called the organizer Sunday and said there is a picture of her jumping that fence on the internet. I just find that too suspicious. I could understand if someone had a camera there, and showed the picture to the TD on the spot, but to have it pop up 'on the internet'? I don't think it was the show photographer because I had to ask him to move. Don't you have 30 minutes to raise a complaint?
                        I'm just feeling old and jaded.
                        Glad you did not have any problems Flea.


                        • #13
                          We used video once years ago to get my dressage score fixed. I had a large white dutch horse and I was 12 and tiny, apparently the judge didn't see me halt and salute when I began the test and gave me a 0. Now it was just novice and I ended up getting eliminated at the water jump the next day anyways, but my friend had video'ed my test and when we saw the 0 on my test, went to the office with camcorder in hand. The TD looked at it and said sure enough that was about as halted as a horse can get and I definately saluted. The actually gave the judge the video to review that first movement and actually give it a score, ended up with a 7 instead of a 0.


                          • #14
                            I once got a bunch of time faults on a stadium round that I thought surely we weren't going *that* slowly.
                            Watched the video (which obviously also tracks how long the round was) and sure enough, it was a lovely, slooooowwww, huntery looking round.
                            Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.


                            • #15
                              I was at Surefire a few years ago, and I had to make a horse substitution because mine had an abscess. So I took my older guy (who needed a very different type of ride to the fences).

                              The night before I went over the course a million times, and knew exactly how I was going to ride each of the fences. Pippin was great in dressage and show jumping (we were 3rd), and we were having a blast on cross country. At the end of the course, my friend told me that we were eliminated because we missed a fence. I thought she was joking...I clearly remembered every fence that I jumped. I even remembered the ride to the jump in question!

                              I talked to the officials, and they were kind enough to even drive me out to the fence so that I could look at it. Yes, yes, yes, I remember jumping it! Unfortunately the fence judges didn't agree. So I decided to order the video - to at least prove to myself and my friends that I had jumped the fence.

                              I waited the few weeks for the video to show up, and ripped it out of the package when it arrived. What it showed was that i went nowhere near the jump! Oops! Clearly we can't rely on my memory.

                              At the time the officials did say that even if there were pictures or video readily available they would not be taken into consideration...which is a good thing for me considering that I didn't even jump the darn fence.
                              put·ter - to busy or occupy oneself in a leisurely or casual manner; usually associated with any equine related activities.