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IS EVENTING SAFE?- post arguements HERE!

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  • IS EVENTING SAFE?- post arguements HERE!

    ok, so here is your new post to post yoru arguements... "honor the horse and rider..."

    member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

    There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
    something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner
    "Do you care, or don’t you care? Because if you do care, you better speak up now or take what you get."
    — Denny Emerson www.savethe3day.org
    **proud member of the trakehNERD group**
  • Original Poster

    #2
    ok, so here is your new post to post yoru arguements... "honor the horse and rider..."

    member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

    There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
    something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner
    "Do you care, or don’t you care? Because if you do care, you better speak up now or take what you get."
    — Denny Emerson www.savethe3day.org
    **proud member of the trakehNERD group**

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the people who think it is not safe, don't actually event.

      It's so easy to laugh; it's so easy to hate; it takes guts to be gentle and kind.... The Smiths
      The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

      Comment


      • #4
        I think you would have to define safe. It is a high-risk sport in which accidents can and do happen. It is also a sport that seems to be continually trying to improve the safety factor.

        Riding on the flat can get you or your horse hurt, we can all attest to that. Getting them airborne increases the odds. I think as horseman it is up to us to find ways to mitigate the risk for both horse and rider.

        "Mooses look into your window at night,
        They look to the left and they look to the right,
        The mooses are smiling they think its a zoo,
        and thats why the mooses like looking at you."

        Comment


        • #5
          Honestly, Advanced eventing has always made my skin crawl. I'm sure several of you have walked Rolex. Did you imagine asking your horse who loves and trusts you to go over some of those jumps? Did you stand at the bottom of Lynch's Leap and look up? Eeek, made me feel guilty just thinking about it. I know the horses love it, but I don't believe they do know that they could die.

          Eventing is a blast up to a certain level, but my opinion is that Advanced eventing leaves no room for mistakes. And since the sport doesn't involve machines, mistakes are going to happen. And be paid for with lives. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]

          I know a horse can break it's leg in the field and people can get hurt in other disciplines but it just seems that Advanced eventing is asking for it. And if the animal rights people get up in arms again, well I personally think they should. Honestly, we are talking about at least 3 horses dead so far this year. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]
          Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

          Comment


          • #6
            I guess people don't like statistics, but I think it would be helpful to have a chart showing how every horse eventually dies.

            It's so easy to laugh; it's so easy to hate; it takes guts to be gentle and kind.... The Smiths
            The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

            Comment


            • #7
              no, it's not safe. Neither is driving your car to the barn, cleaning your house, eating at McDonalds, or mowing your lawn. Stupid question. What you need to ask "Is the risk of injury/death too high for me to feel comfortable doing this?" which of course is a very personal question. People, and horses, all have different levels of risk that they feel comfortable with.

              Comment


              • #8
                And c'mon Wendy---It's unsafe to walk around your house, too, but there are degrees. I'd love to see data, as bgoosewood suggests, on eventing, racing and steeplechasing horse deaths. I have the impression there are few horse deaths/injuries in stadium jumping or dressage, but a higher percent in eventing and steeplechasing. I've been at Virginia's Gold Cup when a horse fell, they drew a curtain around it and put it to sleep with thousands of spectators watching. In fact, one time that happened twice in one day!! Also, if you go on the Associated Press' website (ap.org) and index for "euthanization" you'll see horses are put down at the track with a frightening degree of regularity.

                "Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
                Nietzsche
                www.softlandingstables.com

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  we all KNOW this. So then why do we keep doing it? We LOVE IT. it is one of the oldest sports, done in military to test the horse, yadda yadda, i'm sure we all know the history (and if not go search the web and find out). It is the ultimate test of horse and rider... it is a thrill. The horses qualify, and the riders must qualify. Safety measures have been made, and are still being made... Which is why i beleive we NEED these "breakable" jumps. Had the jump been collapseable, then it would have fallen and Bruce's horse wouldn't have flipped... but no what if's.

                  I LOVE eventing. It is my passion, and My goal is the Olympics. I know the risk, and i will do what i will to prepare my horses for this. By the time I get there tho (like, 2040! lol) will eventing even be the same???

                  Wasn't the point of eventing to see how a horse would do jumping natural obstacles? Ok, so they arent "natural", but it's not like your going to go somewhere and find a million thigns you can jump in a set pattern, yadda yadda. That's why we have course designers. I don't remember where I saw it, but at Rolex a picture of the course designer showed him looking skeptical... I beleive he should have known better then to let horses ride that course. They should've held the course, done more to prepare the footing... But then that wouldn't be too natural either?? We aren't psychic...

                  GRR!! I keep typing to try and justify to myself what to think... but I keep contradicting myself. There is RISK. you can't make eventing %100 safe... maybe not even %85, or even %50. All i know is i love the sport.... you guys go ahead and argue it out... maybe I'll figure things out for myself eventually.
                  ~laura~

                  member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

                  There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
                  something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner
                  "Do you care, or don’t you care? Because if you do care, you better speak up now or take what you get."
                  — Denny Emerson www.savethe3day.org
                  **proud member of the trakehNERD group**

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nope, sure it's not safe. It's unatural for horses to be leaping of cliffs, into water, etc, lol. But are hunters and dressage safe? Nope, not at all. Any equine sport is definitly VERY high risk. Now, I don't know which is MORE or LESS safe, but none of them are actually SAFE.

                    *Belen*
                    Proud Stalker of Reiners, Cutters, any hot cowboy with a cute horse [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
                    Proud Member (Cult-like follower?) of the AQHA Clique / Founder of the Plain Bay TB Clique!
                    If riding were all bright lights, big arenas and blue ribbons, I would have quit a long time ago." -George Morris
                    Belen
                    http://community.webshots.com/user/lovingit09
                    \"I\'m looking for a dare to be great situation\"- John Cusack

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      is eventing "safe" - no.

                      Neither is baseball, football, tennis, gymnastics, soccer, skating or even golf.
                      These are sports. Sports involve physical activity, conditioning, competition, adrenaline rush and sometimes injuries.

                      I think it is important for participants in any sport to help ensure than injuries do not happen because of carelessness, poor planning, negligence or lack of concern for mitigating factors - such as weather.

                      Our sport is complex because it involves two athletes with very different physical and mental makeup, acting in tandem and only communicating thru learned, conditioned, physical cues.
                      This is the very thing that also makes it fascinating to the participants - not only the riders either.

                      My feeling on any sport is, other than ensuring that carelessness, negligence etc are not a factor, either choose to accept the risk involved or choose not to participate. Don't try to dictate to others how their sport should be run.
                      I wouldn't take up figure skating and lobby that some jumps are too dangerous and require too much speed and shouldn't be allowed.

                      A little sarcasm here, but if being "safe" is your major concern, then stay on the porch.

                      Please refrain from twisting this around to read that I think that 'anything goes' in eventing, or that I think that accidents should be ignored - I do not. However, I also do not think that the sport can be made "safe." Safe being a relative term.

                      I have heard concerns about everything from the danger of horses being killed to the fear a spectator feels looking at a fence - how can the sport possibly address the issue of safety to the extent that some people seem to want? It must be risk free and LOOK risk free to spectators?
                      How do you do that?

                      I think that people in this sport are spending a lot of time seriously reviewing any accident and carefully weighing making changes vs. changing the sport.
                      I think this is exactly what should be done.

                      BarbB

                      charter member BEQS Clique & Invisible Poster Clique
                      Nina's Story
                      Epona Comm on FB

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by earthquake:
                        "Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
                        Nietzsche<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Do you actually believe your signature line? That quote certainly advocates embracing risk and uncertainty as a growing or liberating experience. I've posted my views of acceptable risk before -- I think eventers have come to terms with that concept in their own lives. The Nietzsche quote you use as your signature implies that danger and risk have their place in personal development. Perhaps you don't believe that eventing falls into that category, but I do. If you advocate the concept, is it such a stretch to see how eventing can fit into it? --Jess

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          than people get killed in horse related accidents per year.

                          I have argued this point over and over and over....yes, it can be dangerous, but when ridden right it can be safe. I am not picking on the Hunter/Jumper people here (I play in that area too), but most of bad accidents I have seen are those coming into the event world that are still doing what I call the "hunter duck" and falling one their horses neck to hold themself up. The horses front legs hit the fence (which does not fall) and sent the girl flying....
                          then I saw the SAME thing again about 5 riders later. Both of these girls (I knew) were very accomplished hunter riders. But....you cant go gallop and keep throwing yourself on the horses sholders every jump.
                          My point...the accidents I have seen could have been avoided with correct riding and training...its stuff like this that gives our sport a bad name!!
                          ELJ
                          www.spindletopfarm.net
                          Home of Puerto D'Azur - 1998 NA 100 Day Test Champion
                          "Charcter is much easier kept than recovered"

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            eventing isn't safe. and neither is life in itself. and i love eventing... it is my life... and if i die doing it, that so be it! It's my life! I think i would rather die on horse back then any other way. If I couldn't ride, then i wouldn't want to live anyways. I accept this risk. We accept risk simply by getting on a horses back... that's why there's so much liability in relation to horses. Some people don't accept this risk. so go play cards or something and leave us the heck alone.

                            member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

                            There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
                            something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner
                            "Do you care, or don’t you care? Because if you do care, you better speak up now or take what you get."
                            — Denny Emerson www.savethe3day.org
                            **proud member of the trakehNERD group**

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
                              I think the people who think it is not safe, don't actually event.

                              __<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              That's true to a point, but lower level eventing is much, much less dangerous than the upper levels. I've been plugging around for over 20 years at Novice and Training, and other than hurting myself once, none of my horses have ever been injured during competition. Not a bad safety record I think. Also I've been known to scratch if I don't like the footing or the course...common sense goes a long way as well as learning by the school of hard knocks.

                              Personally, I don't have the guts to move up much beyond prelim. I love watching the upper level horses go around the big courses, but it will never be for me. I'm becoming more and more of a DQ every day. I could not risk my horses knowingly in that way.

                              I do not think it is acceptable to have so many fatalities both equine and human at the upper levels. People get to choose the risks though and horses don't, thus we are responsible for them and for their trust. I don't know what the answer is...break away fences, lowering of speeds and jumps, restricting the number or rides... whatever...but my personal beliefs are that we don't have the right put horses at such high risk for the sake of sport and entertainment. I feel the same about steeplechasing and racing and feel that the losses in those sports are too great as well. I don't know where to draw the line at what is acceptable or not but I know my own heart in this matter.

                              "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                It's been said before, but, geeze, my 45 year old boss (a very dynamic and vigorous lady) broke her arm, REALLY badly (she had to wear the kookiest cast for months) when she slipped on her stoop, reaching for the mail.

                                Very, very small sample group. My friend events and has had many horses. In the 5 he had when I rode with him, one died of EPM/neck fracture (they weren't sure which) and one died of cancer (a gray). They all evented at various levels, novice through 2-star. Two were sold because they didn't want to event. (The other 2 are going strong, one of which is 14 now)

                                It's so easy to laugh; it's so easy to hate; it takes guts to be gentle and kind.... The Smiths
                                The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Yes it is dangerous. And yes horses and people have died. But there is more of a chance that you would be driving your car and a train hit you as you were passing over the tracks than there is that you would die on your horse. And it is more likely for your barn to catch on fire or for your horse to get poisoned or something than there is for your horse to die eventing! But I do agree with some of you that eventing could be made more safe. I don't think that they should make the fences nock down when they are hit though. I have seen some combinations on the cross country courses that are just asking for it!! Some things are rediculous!!!! I pesonally love eventing! And those of you who don't want to do eventing that is great! But every sport has it's risks!!! Even if you just trail ride you are putting yourself at risk. I do think that there should be some changes in advanced eventing!!!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Please see my (various) posts on the other 2 threads regarding this for not only my opinion but all the multitude of things that have been VOLUNTARILY done to increase the safety aspect of eventing in the last 8 years alone!

                                    http://chronofhorse.infopop.net/2/Op...5&m=1763064046

                                    earthquake... I'm still waiting to hear of your vast XC Design experience. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                                    ************
                                    YEA RED WINGS!!! 2002 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!! HOCKEYTOWN FOREVER!!

                                    If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

                                    Survivor thoughts -- Thailand here we come. BTW PICK ME FOR S6!!
                                    ************
                                    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                                    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      make collapseable jumps, couldn't that be a hazard in itself? the rails could get tangled up in a horses leg in a combination, and cause even more of a problem. and over drop fences horses naturally hang their legs... how would they be able to compensate for that??? There is so much technicality! perhaps they could do this on certain jumps, but not all. I'll have to go look into this...
                                      ~laura~

                                      member of the ~*~leasing a horse b/c i can't afford my own clique~*~ and the *~*Michigan clique*~* and the ~*~BBers at night clique~*~

                                      There is something about jumping a horse over a fence,
                                      something that makes you feel good. Perhaps it is the risk, the gamble. In any event it's a thing I need. ~William Faulkner
                                      "Do you care, or don’t you care? Because if you do care, you better speak up now or take what you get."
                                      — Denny Emerson www.savethe3day.org
                                      **proud member of the trakehNERD group**

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        bigdreamer... please check out the other thread on the breakable jumps being tested in teh UK. Not all fences are going to be able to be that type and they are currently testing the design that essentially only "drops" when the horse has "begun" an accident... hopefully to end the accident a bit better.

                                        ************
                                        YEA RED WINGS!!! 2002 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!! HOCKEYTOWN FOREVER!!

                                        If Dressage is a Symphony... Eventing is Rock & Roll!

                                        Survivor thoughts -- Thailand here we come. BTW PICK ME FOR S6!!
                                        ************
                                        "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                                        "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                                        Comment

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