• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Mary Wanless and Eventers?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mary Wanless and Eventers?

    I'm in local clinic this weekend with a Mary Wanless (Ride with your Mind) person, and what I'm learning is basically blowing what I thought I know/did away.

    While I think I like some of it, I'm not convinced that this is THE way....

    Do a lot of eventers follow the "Ride With Your Mind" philosophies? Some of it, like NOT keeping your lower leg on the horse, seems...well, counter-intuitive to what I have been taught. The "neutral spine" is very odd, too--I feel like I'm squashed in the saddle, rather than stretching up.

    I'm always trying to improve my dressage...but wondering about how much energy I should spend re-vamping what I thought I knew....
    Last edited by Kairoshorses; Mar. 7, 2009, 09:49 PM. Reason: computo!
    --Becky in TX
    Clinic Blogs and Rolex Blogs
    She who throws dirt is losing ground.

  • #2
    The question I think you might ask yourself is..


    is it working?

    The two things you mention - the leg OFF and then not "stretching up" are probably two of the things that change most peoples riding for the better.

    So.. how are they affecting your horse? Is he/she going better for you when you ride this way?
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

    Comment


    • #3
      Several friends of mine COULD not stand her clinic and thought her method made them stiff and their horses move worse. She also commented on one person's breed of horse and another person's size to their horse (this person hunts this horse 1st flight). Then again other people LOVED her clinic.

      Personally her analogies do not make sense to me.
      http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        I've never ridden with Mary nor do I know her principles HOWEVER, this winter here in Aiken, I am l-e-a-r-n-i-n-g to turn my legs to Jello and guess what, my horse LOVES it. It sure makes everything easier for me, too. When I am reminded to soften my leg I find I have it clamped on!
        I *THINK* Mary is the one who, back in the day, had a horse who only would jump the bounce properly if she said to her horse, whilst galloping XC, "Its a bounce!!", in an ever so cheery voice-he'd rock himself back and bounce on through!
        You paid your $ for her clinic, why not try doing what she says!? It might actually work.
        Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think it's helpful to read her books as well. I found her idea (that she first talks about in The Natural Rider) of "plugging in" your seat bones, and of the neutral spine very helpful. There are excellent drawings in the Natural Rider and The Ride with Your Mind books have great photos.

          She mentions in one of her books that she's found that many American riders ride by pushing their shoulders and their butts back and arching their spines (creating a hollow back). So instead you have to tuck your butt underneath you (think pelvic lift or Kegal--sp?--exercise) while lifting the breastbone up.

          Anyway, I've never clinicked with her, although I'd love to.

          Have fun.
          "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

          Comment


          • #6
            Funny...just talking about this extensively with a friend. Well, not riding in clinics specifically, but I have sometimes ridden with "guest trainers"...you know, ones that I don't normally ride with but have ridden with for help with a specific thing.

            I have had mixed results with those efforts. I guess if it's something I'm pretty good at, and just need some fine tuning, it can be fine. But if it's something I haven't yet mastered (bad word choice for anything horse related) I find it can really do a number on my head. I ride the dressage phase like it's hunter/jumper flatwork, and at my level (BN) that works OK for me. I tried really riding "dressage seat" by taking a "clinic-type" lesson and it did a number on me in all of my riding for a little while. (MY fault, not trainer's) I find when I'm in unfamiliar territory (dressage), while under stress such as competition I have to have really simple things to fall back to. If I have "duelling instructors" in my head at those times it can really confuse me. If I find I'm riding with someone who has some very fundamental differences in riding technique than what I'm used to, unless I feel that I plan on really pursuing that avenue I'm better off sticking with my regular instructor. So that's pretty much what I do now.

            My experience in the clinic environment is that it's not an especially good venue FOR ME.
            I need time to work with a trainer to even see if I "buy in" to what they're saying. And if I don't "buy in" the experience doesn't really carry much value for me.

            I met Michael Page at an Eventing clinic here on LI that I audited. one of his pieces of advice? In Eventing, if you don't trust your trainer 150%, go find another trainer. I did get something out of THAT clinic....

            Tom G.
            HorsePower! www.tcgequine.blogspot.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Over the years I've come to the conclusion that I need to audit an instructor before clinicing with him or her. I've had too many rides where the style or the approach conflicted with what my current trainer suggested. However, in a clinic I recommend trying anything that you don't think is physically dangerous to see how it works. Sometimes you'll find amazing results.

              I've read Mary Wanless' books and it took me a few reads to feel that I understood what she was teaching. I also took some lessons from a trainer here who teaches using her principles. I did find it helpful but having the background of reading her books and articles was an important component.

              Good luck!
              Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
              EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

              Comment


              • #8
                I have had the opprotunity to clinic with MW a few times. I was a rider that thought that dressage position was position A, XC Position was Position B and stadium was position C and that they were fairly different. (ok, taking from different coaches can do that to someone who didn't grow up on a horse's back, or maybe its just me).

                MW was the one who really drove it home that the riders position is basically the same, just the length of leg is different. Even though the clinic I attended was with mostly DQ's, she addressed my question in the non-mounted part of the clinic, and had us all going from dressage to jump position. It was a huge "a-ha" moment for me.

                In a nutshell, (very BIG nutshell that I understand) is that her methods help drive home the point that heps the rider to get the horse's energy going from back to front by the rider carrying her body correctly. that it's not the rider creating the energy, but harnessing the horse's energy to go forward.

                As I said, maybe it was only my problem, but now I can switch to different saddles (and horses) and not be uncomfortable with stirrup length, and get the same results. It actually steadied my leg for jumping too. But, my legs are not clamped on either and I'm much more relaxed on xc because of it .."TOES UP, heels light, make an arrow with the knee" as she likes to say really helped me....
                I love my OTTB! I get my dressage test done faster!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mary Wanless

                  I have to admit I have worked with Mary for 7 years now. She comes to my farm 2x/year and I think her work is fantastic stuff.

                  Yes, it may be very different from what you are used to, but different in a very good way. At my first clinic with her I knew I was hearing something very, very different what what I'd seen and heard before. I live in an area jammed packed with Olympians, Grand Prix and FEI level riders, and I've been to a LOT of their clinics. What a bunch of canned, meaningless drivel. I won't mention names, but some of these folks are giving little more than Pony Club type lessons (though they're getting beaucoup $$ for it.)

                  Keep an open mind and give it a try. Also, get a copy of her latest book RWYM Clinic, if you can. Just the explanation of the 'wordscape' vs 'brainscape' can clear up a lot of misunderstandings.

                  Ohh--- Also, DO NOT think "kegel" exercise when trying to activate pelvic floor muscles. You get in big trouble with Mary if you think 'kegel'

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RiverBendPol View Post
                    I've never ridden with Mary nor do I know her principles HOWEVER, this winter here in Aiken, I am l-e-a-r-n-i-n-g to turn my legs to Jello and guess what, my horse LOVES it. It sure makes everything easier for me, too. When I am reminded to soften my leg I find .

                    Are you riding with Eric Horgan? I have been practicing my jello legs all winter
                    Susan
                    http://community.webshots.com/user/ss3777
                    www.longformatclub.com

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Ha--I was thinking "birthing my child" when the clinician said "bear down"!

                      I DID try to keep an open mind, and I do think I learned some things. I’m having trouble placing them, integrating them—since they don’t all jive with what I know, what I’ve been taught, and, since I DON’T have a lot of experience w/ dressage instructors, what I’ve read. But I'll keep working on them.

                      Now that I’ve had three days of practicing, I think I like the “neutral spine” idea. My horse seemed to go forward a bit more freely, and while I felt like I was collapsing at times, I think I had more power and stability in my core--using not just the front, but all of it. She said that the position would transfer to my forward seat, but I’m having a harder time with that….still, I can tell you that after a lot of trot sets/canter sets all in two point, I know that my lower back hurts….and she said that was from hollowing out my back. So I'm eager to try what she said in my forward saddle.

                      I liked that we focused on turning the withers, and by using our bodies ("planks").

                      Lots of “energy flow” type stuff, which I like, but have a hard time…well, believing/getting. I feel like Mulder in X-Files: I WANT to believe….

                      The hardest thing for me was NOT putting my lower leg on at all, and gripping with/”rolling” my thighs. That seems so much less….secure….than wrapping my whole leg around the horse. I literally felt like I was doing the Charleston!

                      Two recent clinicians (both Olympians/winners at Rolex) told me that I needed to keep my feet more forward in XC….but she was adamant about that being bad. She teaches dressage riders, eventers and jumpers in her native South Africa (again, this was a Wanless Protoge'), but this clinic was just for dressage riders.

                      So all in all, I did get some good things out of the clinic. And I ordered several of the RWYM books online. But I also ordered some Kyra Kirkland stuff.

                      I doubt if I’ll ever be a total Wanless groupie (and I have to say that her devotees are QUITE…well, devoted!), but I do think that I learned some valuable things.
                      --Becky in TX
                      Clinic Blogs and Rolex Blogs
                      She who throws dirt is losing ground.

                      Comment


                      • #12


                        I would ask the Olympians/Rolex'ers why being behind the motion could ever be a good idea
                        "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                        ---
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The hardest thing for me was NOT putting my lower leg on at all, and gripping with/”rolling” my thighs. That seems so much less….secure….than wrapping my whole leg around the horse.
                          I can't imagine throwing away my lower leg ... it is a very important aid for rythym and impulsion. I don't use it or need it for keeping my balance.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Years ago I did a couple of MW clinics. She was excellent.
                            Then I did a clinic with one of her followers - it was dreadful.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post


                              I would ask the Olympians/Rolex'ers why being behind the motion could ever be a good idea
                              Na, this kicks in as soon as you start gallop across country at speed. You can get a way with the hunter rounds through Training level. ; )
                              http://kaboomeventing.com/
                              http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                              Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X