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Two yellow cards and a verbal warning given at VHT

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    Two yellow cards and a verbal warning given at VHT

    One CIC** to Buck Davidson on Be Mine for dangerous riding/out of control. Event Entries shows this as a retirement.

    One verbal warning in the CCI* to Missy Miller for not reporting to the veterinarian. However I cannot find her name in the results for the CCI*.

    One to Caroline Sullivan for dangerous riding/continuing after three refusals. Event entries shows her with no refusals and finishing 12th on The Bond Boy the listed horse in the yellow card.

    Any further information on why it was decided Buck was out of control?
    Any idea why the other two names are listed and the information seems wrong?

    #2
    Doesn't sound good.

    Comment


      #3
      Meanwhile ML didn't get a warning or card for continuing to ride an exhausted horse on XC at Rolex. Makes total sense!
      Blog
      Translation
      fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
      skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

      Comment


        #4
        Event entries results aren't official. I'd wait and check the official record once it's posted to USEA database, might clarify? The discrepancy is weird.
        Balanced Care Equine

        Comment


          #5
          Those are the official results.

          http://useventing.com/competitions/results?event=16130

          Comment


            #6
            Well Missy Miller was in the CCI2 not the 1, and she is shown as retired on the USEA results. I don't know that you would necessarily be able to tell from looking at the USEA results that she and Buck had gotten yellow cards/warnings after retiring (is there a numeric DR penalty under FEI rules? I don't believe so but I'm not really up to snuff on them at the moment). If Buck pulled up on his own and then the officials came and found him to give the yellow card, he wouldn't necessarily have been pulled off course. Not sure what to think about Caroline Sullivan, there must be a recording error in there somewhere, on either the FEI or the USEA's part.
            Balanced Care Equine

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #7
              http://www.fei.org/fei/your-role/athletes/warning-cards is the FEI yellow card/warning list. It still is the same. The competition results are the same on USEA site.

              Comment


                #8
                Not sure, but there are errors on the FEI list of riders with yellow cards.

                For example: Anne Charlotte Brieke competed at the 2015 Pan Ams CCI** in Toronto - FEI has her listed as a Canadian - she's actually a Columbian.

                I know a small error but I guess we will have to wait and see if there is any chatter on any other social media sites about the 2 yellow cards and verbal warning.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Scratch that. Odd. Caroline Sullivan's is -? A verbal for a vet is likely some technicality. Not familiar enough with FEI rules.

                  But coming in 12th place with continuing after too many refusals? That is bizarre.
                  Last edited by goodmorning; Jun. 4, 2016, 01:46 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Buck's card was ridiculous. His horse was being nappy/spooking and he couldn't get off it when it spooked and got tangled in the rope spooking more. He couldn't get off it and was doing all that he could to stop the horse. And once he did he pulled up and retired. There was NO dangerous riding going on at all. THAT is not something that should be given a yellow card ever. That is called an accident with a large flight animal.

                    I hope it gets challenged and over turned.
                    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Jun. 4, 2016, 05:57 PM.
                    ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                    Comment


                      #11
                      "[A]n accident with a large flight animal." I like that. That's how I'll refer to any spooking problems I have from now on!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        FEI to do list:

                        6 month ban after voluntarily pulling up horse having green moments. Check.

                        Yellow card for being stuck on spooking horse. Check

                        Squeezing eyes shut while simultaneously sticking fingers in ears and singing LA-LA-LA-LA-LA while exhausted horses are trotting on course and being pressed to finish. Check, check, and check.
                        Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

                        The Grove at Five Points

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                          Buck's card was ridiculous. His horse was being nappy/spooking and he couldn't get off it when it spooked and got tangled in the rope spooking more. He couldn't get off it and was doing all that he could to stop the horse. And once he did he pulled up and retired. There was NO dangerous riding going on at all. THAT is not something that should be given a yellow card ever. That is called an accident with a large flight animal.

                          I I hope it gets challenged and over turned.
                          Is there any chance there is more to the story?! Like a warning earlier & this was the final straw? If not, ummm, gosh I just would like to think any official or steward would understand the whole sitting on a large spooking flight animal concept. Bizzare. There is a difference between the FEI as an Org and the individual stewards...just...baffling...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by goodmorning View Post
                            Is there any chance there is more to the story?! Like a warning earlier & this was the final straw? If not, ummm, gosh I just would like to think any official or steward would understand the whole sitting on a large spooking flight animal concept. Bizzare. There is a difference between the FEI as an Org and the individual stewards...just...baffling...
                            not more to it by those that were witnesses. The rope did get wrapped around and as the horse pulled it out, a friend of Buck's didn't quite get out of way in time and did get a rope burn or minor injury. Supposedly because someone got hurt, non-witness officials felt he had to be given a yellow card for lack of control. But to me, these facts do not warrant a yellow card.

                            In reality, with a lesser rider than Buck, the situation could have been much worse. I was not a witness but an experienced horse friend was.

                            I think the real issue was the roped off warm up was in a less than ideal location......and hopefully will not be located there again. (This is a good and well run event so I have no doubt improvement will be made.)
                            ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Just because Buck is Buck should not mean he is immune from reprisal. A horse that spooks enough on course to wrap the side ropes around it and could not be pulled up should be called dangerous riding on course. What else can they do so that the horse will not be reentered until it is not so out of control. In racing if a horse has a spastic attack in the gate that creates a dangerous situation for horses and riders, the horse has to be reschooled until the officials know if will be safe to compete. Perhaps that is all they have in their toolbox to check the behavior. I am not familiar enough with the penalties to know what exactly they could do but everyone is rightfully concerned about fatalities and injuries, this seems to me to be the only thing they can do in this case.
                              "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                                Just because Buck is Buck should not mean he is immune from reprisal. A horse that spooks enough on course to wrap the side ropes around it and could not be pulled up should be called dangerous riding on course. What else can they do so that the horse will not be reentered until it is not so out of control. In racing if a horse has a spastic attack in the gate that creates a dangerous situation for horses and riders, the horse has to be reschooled until the officials know if will be safe to compete. Perhaps that is all they have in their toolbox to check the behavior. I am not familiar enough with the penalties to know what exactly they could do but everyone is rightfully concerned about fatalities and injuries, this seems to me to be the only thing they can do in this case.
                                i would NOT give a yellow card to ANY rider in a similar situation. It is NOT what yellow cards are for. The location of the warm up caused an issue for multiple horses. You do not give a yellow card to a rider for that sort of issue. It is also why I HATE the use of rope. If he had fallen off on course...and the horse ran loose to warm up would you yellow card???? I certainly wouldn't.
                                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                                  Just because Buck is Buck should not mean he is immune from reprisal. A horse that spooks enough on course to wrap the side ropes around it and could not be pulled up should be called dangerous riding on course. What else can they do so that the horse will not be reentered until it is not so out of control. In racing if a horse has a spastic attack in the gate that creates a dangerous situation for horses and riders, the horse has to be reschooled until the officials know if will be safe to compete. Perhaps that is all they have in their toolbox to check the behavior. I am not familiar enough with the penalties to know what exactly they could do but everyone is rightfully concerned about fatalities and injuries, this seems to me to be the only thing they can do in this case.
                                  From what has been described here it sounds like a single, so far isolated incident with this particular horse. If the horse had a history of such behavior and was continuing to be entered and exhibit the same behavior, or had been misbehaving all day and Buck continued on with it up until the point that it got caught in the ropes, you could make a case for a yellow card. However, from what BFNE said it sounds more like the horse was going ok until it spooked at something, ran into the ropes and got more freaked out, at which point Buck did what he could to get the situation back under control and then retired. I'm not sure how else he could have handled the situation ... That doesn't sound like dangerous riding to me. And while it's unfortunate that someone got hurt, and the event organizers should look at ways to prevent similar incidents in the future, sh*t still can happen when horses are involved. That's why events pay so much money for insurance.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
                                    I think the real issue was the roped off warm up was in a less than ideal location......and hopefully will not be located there again. (This is a good and well run event so I have no doubt improvement will be made.)
                                    BFNE, would you mind saying what you thought was less than ideal about the location? I value your experience, and I was there as a spectator Saturday and went by warmup.
                                    HAS provides hospital care to 340,000 people in Haiti's Artibonite Valley 24/7/365/earthquake/cholera/whatever.
                                    www.hashaiti.org blog:http://hashaiti.org/blog

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      So was the yellow card in the warm up? Or spooking on course?

                                      What's more concerning is the 12th place yet too many refusals. How is there such a discrepancy? If people want to start looking at stats, well, SISO.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by goodmorning View Post
                                        So was the yellow card in the warm up? Or spooking on course?

                                        What's more concerning is the 12th place yet too many refusals. How is there such a discrepancy? If people want to start looking at stats, well, SISO.
                                        From what I was told, the horse crashed through a jump in the warmup and was being difficult and then continued the antics on course. Threw a fit after the first jump and wouldn't go near it (the assumption being he didn't want to leave the horses in the warmup).

                                        Comment

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