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  • Another way to look at the USEA statement: tI think they can comment only over incidents at venues they control. At least I'm betting that's what their lawyers would say. (Control might be the wrong word. Haven't had caffeine yet, but you know what I mean.)
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by kcmel View Post

      The parsing is disingenuous. Ashley and Phillipa don't count?
      I don’t believe that it is. “Second rider fatality at USEA recognized competitions in the last decade” is pretty clear, and a fair limit to what the USEA can involve themselves with. Phillipa and Jeffie died at USEA recognized competitions (one on course, one in warm up).

      Ashley’s death was tragic, but one of the frustrating things about it is that it happened at home, where the USEA committees were unlikely to be permitted to gather data and information as they would otherwise be able to at a competition (regardless of warmup or actual course, I would expect that the full showgrounds are under their purview and incidents there can be investigated as such). The USEA doesn’t get to investigate member deaths outside of shows in any other context, so unfortunately I doubt they were permitted to do so just because she was riding at the time. I don’t like it, but I accept that is most likely the case.

      It feels like there have been many more because the community as a whole has lost many others in recent years, but not in the US. The other North American lost over that ten year period (Jordan McDonald) died on course in Great Britain.

      Comment


      • I don’t see anything nefarious in USEA’s statement addressing only fatalities which have occurred at USEA events (and they did include FEI levels at USEA events, because the other person who killed in competition, Philippa, was riding in a 3*). I don’t see any attempt to misrepresent things as less serious by manipulating numbers.

        As tragic as Ashley’s accident was, it didn’t occur at a USEA event or sanctioned training session, or even at a facility that holds USEA events, so although it was a fatality related to the sport of eventing, the situation in which the fatality occurred wasn’t one over which USEA has any bearing.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post
          I don’t see anything nefarious in USEA’s statement addressing only fatalities which have occurred at USEA events (and they did include FEI levels at USEA events, because the other person who killed in competition, Philippa, was riding in a 3*). I don’t see any attempt to misrepresent things as less serious by manipulating numbers.

          As tragic as Ashley’s accident was, it didn’t occur at a USEA event or sanctioned training session, or even at a facility that holds USEA events, so although it was a fatality related to the sport of eventing, the situation in which the fatality occurred wasn’t one over which USEA has any bearing.
          Oh I wasn't suggesting there was anything nefarious at all. More just like, wow, was it really only that many, I thought I had heard about more that were USEA, but I was thinking of FEI levels in the US.

          ETA: Just saw where you said the other one was FEI in the US. Either way, there have been way too many.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post

            Oh I wasn't suggesting there was anything nefarious at all. More just like, wow, was it really only that many, I thought I had heard about more that were USEA, but I was thinking of FEI levels in the US.

            ETA: Just saw where you said the other one was FEI in the US. Either way, there have been way too many.
            No worries! I was responding not really to your comment, but more to a few other commenters that seemed to believe that USEA was intentionally 'excluding' some fatalities in order to make it seem the fatality rate is lower than it actually is. I don't think that's the case.

            I agree that it does "seem" like there have been more in the past 10 years ... but I think it's because we hear about accidents that happen all around the world, as well as ones that happen during schooling at home. The ones over which USEA has any sort of jurisdiction make up only a fraction of the total number.

            Maybe it's time to come up with a separate organization (not USEA or FEI) that investigates all fatalities related to eventing, around the world, whether in FEI or national competition, or at unrecognized events or schooling.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post

              I agree that it does "seem" like there have been more in the past 10 years ... but I think it's because we hear about accidents that happen all around the world, as well as ones that happen during schooling at home. The ones over which USEA has any sort of jurisdiction make up only a fraction of the total number.
              I think in this thread we conflate horse deaths with rider deaths which is reason my thoughts went to "only two - that seems low".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                I really wish they would report if the riders who were killed recently were wearing air vests. From my research which is obviously not that accountable, they were all regular users of air vests. It seems a bit much 4 people have dies in a month in schooling falls or falls where they should have been able to complete the fence. My suspicions that air vests actually create danger are growing.
                Why do you think the air vests create more danger? I've never seen one outside of pictures or videos, so I'm not disagreeing, just curious as to what danger they could cause.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post

                  Why do you think the air vests create more danger? I've never seen one outside of pictures or videos, so I'm not disagreeing, just curious as to what danger they could cause.
                  JER or one of the other brilliant minds on here can probably explain better/more eloquently than I can, but if the vest inflates and you've suffered a neck or spinal injury (e.g. if the horse falls with/on you and the lanyard doesn't detatch since you haven't "separated" enough from the horse), it can cause a displacement of your spine/neck and cause more damage.
                  Road to the T3D
                  Translation
                  fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
                  skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

                  Comment


                  • Interesting, Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post
                      Interesting, Thank you.


                      If you search on this forum, there was a thread about a recent study that reviewed all FEI fall data and found a 1.7 times increased of risk of severe to fatal injury when wearing an air vest as compared to just a standard protector. I have it on my computer, but the thread here has a good discussion about pros and cons.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by RAyers View Post



                        If you search on this forum, there was a thread about a recent study that reviewed all FEI fall data and found a 1.7 times increased of risk of severe to fatal injury when wearing an air vest as compared to just a standard protector. I have it on my computer, but the thread here has a good discussion about pros and cons.
                        Thanks. That was some interesting reading. I can see the point if you have an injury as you land and THEN the lanyard gets pulled... all bets are off on that being better. I'm in no shape to go tackle a xc course anytime soon, but was curious. I have always felt better about the hunter/jumper ring because those fences are made to come down if hit. I know rotational falls can still happen, but I imagine it's more prevalent with solid obstacles.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post

                          Thanks. That was some interesting reading. I can see the point if you have an injury as you land and THEN the lanyard gets pulled... all bets are off on that being better. I'm in no shape to go tackle a xc course anytime soon, but was curious. I have always felt better about the hunter/jumper ring because those fences are made to come down if hit. I know rotational falls can still happen, but I imagine it's more prevalent with solid obstacles.
                          I suggest you read the study. It's not just about failure of the airvest inflating before impact.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RAyers View Post

                            I suggest you read the study. It's not just about failure of the airvest inflating before impact.
                            Having read through it all, this thing looks like a marketing scam. There's no proof they'll prevent injury, they've statistically increased injury if anything, but hey, it might make some people feel safer, so let's market these.

                            Comment


                            • I was very happy to read in the latest Chronicle the article "Vested Interest". It pretty much agrees with the info Rayers posted. You won't see me in one - just wish the exo I bought fit me.

                              Mary in Western NY
                              http://www.bpequine.com

                              Comment


                              • Maybe it’s my imagination or I haven’t been looking in the ‘right’ places, but it seems to me like there is less advertisement/pushing of air vests going on now than there was a couple years ago.

                                Fall mechanics aside, I really dislike how loud the vests are when they deploy. IMO the last thing a horse needs when sh*t is going sideways and he’s trying to stay upright is a very loud “POP-hisssssssss” right in his ears. I’m sure not all horses mind it, but I could certainly imagine the addition of a sudden loud noise very close by making an unseated rider more likely to get stepped on or dragged, or a horse more likely to panic if he gets hung up.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Black Points View Post
                                  I was very happy to read in the latest Chronicle the article "Vested Interest". It pretty much agrees with the info Rayers posted. You won't see me in one - just wish the exo I bought fit me.
                                  [/url]
                                  Too bad I don't subscribe anymore, that's one I would actually like to read!

                                  http://the900facebookpony.com/

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    I'm dropping this link here for reference, looks like an interesting study, but if you looka t Appendix 1., I think there may be more names for the list that I don't have, of those who died after a time due to injuries sustained while eventing.

                                    Lots of good resources in the bototm too I need to read when I have time.

                                    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4773740/

                                    Interesting fact, 2 sets of siblings have died riding/eventing. Stephen & Sam Moore/ Mia & Shana Erikkson
                                    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                    Comment


                                    • EN just reported the death of Amazing at Millstreet: https://eventingnation.com/lucy-jack...ingent-report/

                                      Unusual for them, it is a little footnote at the very end of the article. ☹️

                                      Comment


                                      • Oh, this is getting so difficult.

                                        Comment


                                        • I did not know about the death in XC Warm Up - I regularly volunteer as steward at our local Central Florida HTs so it will require increased vigilance.
                                          The report gives "rotational fall" as the cause - does anyone know the fence type or have any other pertinent details?
                                          Last edited by ksbadger; Sep. 1, 2019, 12:41 AM.
                                          Brock
                                          Brock n. (Anglo-Saxon) badger as in Brockenhurst, Brocklebank etc www.area35.us

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