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Proposed rule changes would make BN,N, T harder

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  • Proposed rule changes would make BN,N, T harder

    There are two proposed rule changes that would make BN, N and T more difficult
    https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/291-14.pdf
    and
    https://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/292-14.pdf

    At Beginner Novice,
    -The cross country speed would increase from 300 to 350 mpm, with speed faults at 520 mpm (Prelim speed). “Combinations may include obstacles on a two stride line, as well as obstacles on a bending line. A water crossing may include an obstacle before the water and an obstacle after the water. Individual obstacles may include: a brush fence, a ditch, a step up, and a step down.”
    -In Show Jumping, two fences could be 2’10” with a spread of 3’5”

    At Novice
    - The cross country speed would increase to 400-430 (now350-400) mpm, with speed faults at 520 mpm (Prelim speed). “Combinations may include: obstacles on a two stride line, obstacles requiring control of the line (such as offset obstacles) at two strides, and an obstacle after a ditch at two strides. Steps in combination may include: a step up followed by a step down at two strides, two steps up or two steps down at two strides, or an obstacle after a step up at two strides. Water may include: a jump into water (obstacle or log/drop) together with an obstacle after the water, or an obstacle before the water together with an obstacle out of water. Individual obstacles may include: a log trakehner, an elephant trap, a corner, and a double brush.”
    -In Show Jumping, two fences could be 3’1” with a spread of 3’9”, and could include two doubles.

    At Training
    - The cross country speed would increase to 450-480 (now 420 - 470) mpm, with speed faults at 520 mpm (Prelim speed). And Open Training would have to be at 480mpm. “Combinations may include: obstacles on a one stride line, a pair of obstacles on an angle at two strides, an obstacle before or after an obstacle with a narrow face at two strides, an obstacle before or after a corner at two strides, and an obstacle before a ditch at two strides. Steps in combination may include: a step down followed by a step up at two strides, two steps up or two steps down at one stride, or an obstacle after a step up at one stride. Water may include a jump into water (obstacle or log/drop) and a jump out of water (obstacle or step). Individual obstacles may include: an obstacle jumped from water to water (provided this water jump does not include jumps into or out of the water), a ditch/brush, a ditch/wall, and a roof over a vertical.”
    -In Show Jumping, two fences could be 3’5” with a spread of 3’11”, and could include a double and a triple, a Swedish oxer, and a Liverpool.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

  • #2
    Would love to know what the motivation is for these changes, what are they trying to acheive?

    Comment


    • #3
      So much for easing horses and riders into the sport!

      Comment


      • #4
        I compete at Prelim, but I am the DC of our local pony club and have two daughters in pony club who are starting to event. Who can say this has no impact? it clearly has a huge impact on the kids on ponies contingent, for some whom 2'7 already seems big.

        Comment


        • #5
          With the various problems upper level eventing has with people being worried about safety, why on earth make the lower levels harder/faster?

          What's the point?

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe they are trying to make the lower levels more equal to the levels overseas? Does anyone know how this would compare to eventing in Europe? Maybe they are trying to copy a system that seems to be working somewhere else....? Just a thought....I can't think of why they would do this in the first place.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hell, 2'7" already seems plenty big for ME!! This does not sit well with me. Just guessing, but I think this would cause some safety issues for those who are barely ready to compete at the current level of difficulty. I am guessing some would just opt to push through because, as in the showjumping, it "would just be one fence or two." Might cause some crashes at a level like BN.

              Honestly, I've already had a step up on xc at BN schooling shows, and a fence after the water.

              But the overall encouraging faster speeds? With all the current safety concerns, is NOW a great time to encourage everyone to go faster???? Should beginner eventers at BN REALLY be going that fast??
              Blog chronicling our new eventing adventures: Riding With Scissors

              Comment


              • #8
                This seems like a continuation of their previous actions. That is, perpetually making the lower levels more difficult (i.e., higher, faster, wider). When I started eventing (oh, a million or so years ago), PreTraining (now Novice) was the lowest level; prior to that, Training was the lowest level. But then they made Novice more difficult/faster so Beginner Novice was added. And now, many events have Intro, which is even lower. I'm sorry (I know, I'm an old fart), but jumping 2'11" (Novice) any faster than 350 mpm is just plain stupid. They're not big fences for chrissake. They need to be cantered, not run at. Like jumping larger fences, galloping at a higher speed is a skill that needs to be acquired. Not just at this level. And making

                Is there no one at the USEA/USEF that has a lick of sense any more? I don't see this as encouraging more riders to take up eventing. On the contrary, it seems like rules suggested by folks who don't have a lot of experience with lower level/entry event riders.


                Sorry. Just a cranky old lady here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I was nervous enough about moving up to BN next year.....are they going to add another division under BN for people to move up? I'm only doing the 2'3" elementary/intro levels right now...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I certainly hope they aren't doing this to "copy" a system overseas in the hopes of making the US system better.

                    If they want to improve US eventing, do this:

                    1) set up small, affordable family farms in the middle of small towns, near big open fields from adjoining properties Given one to every family who has horses.
                    2) Do not build an indoor.
                    3) Build an outdoor arena that is decent size but not huge
                    4) Give every child a plump British pony to learn to gallop, event, and do dressage on
                    5) If it rains you go out riding anyway. If you want to ride in something other than your small outdoor, go out on the trails. Find logs, ditches, and streams to jump.
                    6) When you are old enough to drink, go fox hunting. Even if you aren't old enough to drink, go anyway.
                    7) Instead of spending $$$$$ on a french saddle, buy an english made saddle for $$$, and spend the$$ remainder on a trip to Ireland. Go hunting there. When you come back, US X-C courses will look tame and small by comparison.
                    Last edited by SnicklefritzG; Oct. 13, 2014, 07:45 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                      Would love to know what the motivation is for these changes, what are they trying to acheive?
                      This was my first thought too. Why? What is the story behind the desire to make the change?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The rule changes will push even more people away from the recognized events and hopefully towards the unrecognized events(rather than completely away from eventing).

                        I look at my daughters and their friends, who are in their late 20's and early 30's. They all have decent jobs that take up a lot of their time and don't pay huge salaries. They don't have the time or money to get more than a lesson per month. They ride regularly, but not daily. To safely compete at the "new" prenovice and novice levels will require more lesson and riding time, and more lesson money than they have. Their choice will be whether to compete unsafely or to not compete at any recognized events.

                        Eventing should instead look at slowing the speeds for each of the levels by 25-50 mpm. If we did that for 1-2 years, I think injuries would decrease and entries would increase.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think the other consequence of this is shutting out a lot of older horses that are perfectly capable of taking a new rider to an event to learn the sport, but won't (or shouldn't) make time. The steady-eddy QH/paint/Appaloosa/Arabian/NSH/pony is disappearing from the lower levels around here already. All this rule will do is fill the starter divisions and the mini events while the recognized events lose riders.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            The stated reasons for the proposed changes are
                            The changes for the cross-country speeds is to better relate the speed required to the jumping effort required. It has been observed that horses moving
                            forward at a reasonable pace for these levels have either had to slow down and circle or have gained speed faults.
                            The change of speed at which speed faults are calculated is to have one meaningful speed that competitors can learn and remember.
                            The change of heights of two obstacles in the jumping test is to start to relate the standard of US jumping to the World standard at these levels.
                            Note: The heights for spreads will proportionally increase by 5 cm (2") as the spreads are related to the heights.


                            To more clearly define the progression of difficulty in the cross-country and jumping tests as a horse/rider moves up through the levels. In particular, the changes are recommended in order to prepare horses and riders to make the step from Training to Preliminary.
                            Janet

                            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              On a more serious note, I don't think increasing the speed at the lower levels is a good idea. I've already seen plenty of threads, as well as real-life commentary at HT's about how people are "tearing around" on X-C at B/N and then slowing to a trot to avoid getting speed faults. I think the time for B/N and N should be kept as it is in order to encourage people to ride safety and give them a pleasant introduction to the sport. Some people might argue that's what the schooling events are for. However, I think that there is a huge benefit to showing recognized, in terms of the structure, the judging, etc. that would benefit the first few levels.

                              I don't have too much of a problem with combinations because presumably people are doing something similar in the jump schools at home. In addition, the courses in my area almost always have a ditch at B/N. The water crossing is usually just that, with no jumps in and out. I don't think that adding a log or a step in and out will present much difficulty.

                              If you make a few jumps at 2'10' with spreads to 3'5", that might turn off some people. If you look at B/N as being roughly 2'6" and Novice a tick under 3', I think there's a big difference between the two. For folks just starting out, they might not feel comfortable doing that in a competition environment even though they might be schooling bigger at home. I could see raising the height on 1-2 jumps for a championship event, but not as a regular thing. If someone feels comfortable at that height, let them go to Novice. But no, we can't do that because novice might turn into 3'6".

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                I left out Prelim

                                At Prelim,
                                -The cross country speed would not change. “Combinations may include: obstacles at a bounce distance, obstacles before and after a ditch, a pair of obstacles on an angle at one stride, and corners or obstacles with a narrow face together with obstacles involving terrain changes (mounds, etc.). Steps in combination may include: a step up followed by a step down at one stride, a Normandy Bank at one stride, two steps up or two steps down at a bounce distance, or an obstacle after a step up at a bounce distance. Water may include a combination into water followed by an obstacle or step out, an obstacle or log/drop into water followed by a combination out, or an obstacle or log/drop into water together with a water-to-water obstacle. Individual obstacles may include: a zig zag over a ditch, a bullfinch, a keyhole, a roof over a table, and a narrow triple brush.”
                                -In Show Jumping, two fences could be 3’9” with a spread of 4’5”, and could include 3 doubles
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  "The changes for the cross-country speeds is to better relate the speed required to the jumping effort required. It has been observed that horses moving
                                  forward at a reasonable pace for these levels have either had to slow down and circle or have gained speed faults.

                                  The change of speed at which speed faults are calculated is to have one meaningful speed that competitors can learn and remember.
                                  The change of heights of two obstacles in the jumping test is to start to relate the standard of US jumping to the World standard at these levels.
                                  Note: The heights for spreads will proportionally increase by 5 cm (2") as the spreads are related to the heights.


                                  To more clearly define the progression of difficulty in the cross-country and jumping tests as a horse/rider moves up through the levels. In particular, the changes are recommended in order to prepare horses and riders to make the step from Training to Preliminary."

                                  What is the definition of "reasonable pace"? Their justification for the speed changes doesn't sound right to me. They say "it has been observed..." Well, matching the speed to the type of jump should be obvious from decades and decades of riding, but they make it sound like a more recent observation. Kind of like, oh we have just noticed, blah blah blah.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Oh, please don't let this go through. Holy moly.
                                    Prelim speed time at BN?!
                                    and PONIES compete at BN. Little ponies. That maybe can't jump the two bigger fences. Let's not drive people away from eventing, speaking as someone who brings very young people into our sport.
                                    Bad ideas, all around.
                                    www.ncsporthorse.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I thought the hybrid divisions like T/P were designed to help people move up.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        In particular, the changes are recommended in order to prepare horses and riders to make the step from Training to Preliminary.
                                        I wonder how many horses actually make that step though. Clearly yes, people do but in the grand scheme of things, the number of people who stay at lower levels probably outweighs the number of people who continue on to the upper levels.

                                        Comment

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