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Comments on this pedigree?

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  • Comments on this pedigree?

    Hi guys,
    Can anyone comment on this boy's breeding for eventing? I'm curious
    Thanks in advance!


  • #2
    i like the hawaii and damascus up pretty close on the top sire side, and the fappiano and of course my all time favorite, buckpasser on the bottom.also the in reality on the bottom one back. should be a pretty nice guy, good luck with him

    ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"


    • #3
      We also like Damascus and Buckpasser.


      • #4
        Make that me three!!
        The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
        H. Cate


        • #5
          would love to see a picture if you have one.
          i am breeding my own tb's for sport now. have a nice paint/tb cross mare, a 3 yr.old colt with the buckpasser double on both top and bottom(should be althletic) i have not broke yet, a 2 yr.old filly and a HUGE yearling. so, we will see how they all turnout. your guy sure is bred to be a sporthorse.

          ride it like you stole it! "ralph hill"


          • #6
            The Wild Risk (by way of Le Fabuleux) is pretty nice to see. I think K. O'Connor's Biko had that breeding as well as David O'Connor's Custom Made (but through a different son.)


            • #7
              not to hijack this thread but......

              I bought a filly a couple of years ago and am hoping she will be a good event prospect..would someone like to look at her pedigree and let me know?

              She is by Santa Cruz (Oldenburg) and out of a TB mare. Way State by State Dinner..
              She is now about 3 1/2 years old....
              Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
              Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
              "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"


              • #8
                Well, the first two in the sire line (Johanesburg & Hennesy) won a lot of money but didn't last past 2. So I'd be eyeing this horse up with questions as to long term soundness. But that said I wouldn't rule him out, as Unbridled was a wonderful, long lasting athlete and has produced many of same, and you can find some wonderful Storm Cats out there for sport.

                Agree on the comments re Hawaii, Damascus, etc but they are further back. So it really depends on this individual. How does he look? Did he race? Did he hold up? (You know you can pull detailed reports on race career - any gaps indicate possible issues) Due to his precocious, but delicate, sire line, I'd be especially critical of any conformation flaws.

                PM me if you want links to how to get race history info!



                • #9
                  Originally posted by ivy62 View Post
                  I bought a filly a couple of years ago and am hoping she will be a good event prospect..would someone like to look at her pedigree and let me know?

                  She is by Santa Cruz (Oldenburg) and out of a TB mare. Way State by State Dinner..
                  She is now about 3 1/2 years old....
                  Well, I'll leave comments on her sire line to others (I'm just a TB pedigree person lol) But I like her dam's sire line better than the OP's - the sire State Dinner ran long and into 5 yo and against some classy company. Definitely sound TB blood there. The bottom seems more obscure racing wise, but that's not necessarily a negative - when sport breeders find a nice TB mare they tend to breed for sport, not race, thus lack of records for the latter. Some of our best TB sport lines don't show much racing prowess in history as their talents were discovered and their careers redirected.



                  • Original Poster

                    Thanks guys - such a wealth of knowledge here on COTH!

                    Arcadien, I'd LOVE to learn more about his race past but don't know how to look it up. I would be so grateful for some help!

                    This horse is a 4 year old gelding who has been offered to us as "free to a good home" as his owner's career and schedule no longer permit her to continue with him. He raced a few times but retired apparently sound at 3 and has spent the last year relaxing and having some ground work and light riding done. I haven't seen his conformation yet but he's a dark bay/black (like my other two geldings!). I'm told he stands like a statue at the mounting block - something I REALLY appreciate these days


                    • #11
                      Here is your best bet for race records -


                      You have to register(free) and it costs a few bucks to pull most reports, but I believe no more than $5-10 or so for what you are looking for. Well worth it if you are looking to buy a racehorse - you are hoping to see a rather steady race career, with no long gaps. You can also see who trained him, and most trainers would answer a question about why a gap occurred honestly - they have no reason not to want a horse to get a good home.

                      Keep in mind most horses will come with various dings & bumps, and depending on the level you are looking to compete some more serious injuries are completely workable. For instance I knew a few with bowed tendons go Prelim or better, and my friend had an older gelding with a full blown suspensory come back to be a decent Novice horse (he needed a year off, but after that never had another problem, and is still giving pony rides at 26!)



                      • #12
                        Actually both Hennesy and Jo'burg did race at 3 (lost money on both in the 3yo classics IIRC) but were pretty much duds...although quite the lookers. We have debated the Storm cat temperment and the Mr Prospector soundness. Unbridled has his fans but also has had offspring that were spectacular early then folded.

                        I'd say it is going to depend on this individual and his ability to accept the training as well as be easy on himself.

                        You really never know but....might hesitate a little on this one as the good stuff is farther back then the questionable stuff.
                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by findeight View Post
                          Unbridled has his fans but also has had offspring that were spectacular early then folded.
                          Yeah, the Unbridled line is NOTORIOUSLY unsound. Unbridled's Song was fast but had awful feet. Then he became a sire and his offspring are again, fast but tend to breakdown early (Eight Belles). Unbridled's Song sired Songandaprayer who ALSO has fast offspring who breakdown early (What A Song). And ditto on the sire line, Johannesburg and Hennessy were brilliant at two, but not so much at three.

                          So I'd be a bit wary about his soundness.


                          • Original Poster

                            Thanks for the input Findeight and Divine Comedy - definitely information to consider!


                            • #15
                              Ditto on the Damascus. I also like the double "Raise A Native" My experience has been those horses have great minds.
                              OTTBs rule, but spots are good too!


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by scubed View Post
                                I also like the double "Raise A Native" My experience has been those horses have great minds.
                                Findeight and Divine Comedy, I was under the impression that too much Raise A Native in a pedigree could be a soundness concern for race horses. I think I got that from Ellen Parker's "reines de courses" website. Do you guys agree with that assesment and if so do you think it has application for sporthorses?


                                • #17
                                  No offense meant, but this horse has the pedigree to be very fragile. If it were me and the discipline in question were eventing, I'd probably pass. Much as I like all the talent that is patent in the pedigree, there is also a whole lot of unsoundness and horses who are known to pass on unsoundness.

                                  Both Storm Cat and Mr. P have leg issues. RAN passed on a high percentage of tendon problems. Unbridleds have a reputation for breaking down in unusually high numbers. Especially with surgical straightening of legs being so prevalent today, you just can't trust your eyes.

                                  The great things are Wild Risk (of course) and Hawaii, but they are overbalanced by the potential negatives.

                                  I'd do a lot of digging into his relatives to see how they held up at the track before committing.
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by subk View Post
                                    Findeight and Divine Comedy, I was under the impression that too much Raise A Native in a pedigree could be a soundness concern for race horses. I think I got that from Ellen Parker's "reines de courses" website. Do you guys agree with that assesment and if so do you think it has application for sporthorses?
                                    To be perfectly honest, I kind of laugh when people talk about horses more than three generations back. My rule of thumb is that if they are further back than the third generation, their blood is so diluted in the main horse that you can't even really tell it's there. Therefore, I have no opinion on Raise A Native because it is too far back, although I do know that Raise A Native and his offspring weren't the soundest either. However, again, I don't think it is the Raise A Native blood that is doing it, it is the more recent generations.

                                    On the other hand, since Raise A Native sired unsound offspring, you can argue that having him far back may show unsoundness because his line tends to be unsound. However, you never know if a more recent sire from the Raise A Native line had soundness bred into him from the dam line. So I guess you could argue that generally, the appearance of Raise A Native might show unsoundness, but I think that it would be important to do more research into the closer generations before completely judging.


                                    • Original Poster

                                      UPDATE: I saw the horse

                                      Hi guys,
                                      I saw the horse tonight and here are my thoughts:
                                      The Good: He has a very good mind - he's quiet, rideable, and quite willing despite being very green. He's also a very good mover with a huge free stride and quite a lot of action behind. He oversteps in walk by 8+" and tracks up well in trot. He moves straight, though close behind.
                                      His face is lovely with a kind, soft eye and a double whorl just above his eyes. His legs are straight and correct, his feet are pretty good though his left front is a bit flatter than his right. He's currently barefoot on icy ground and sound with feet that are holding up well (not chipping apart etc.). He has a lovely high point of shoulder, good withers, and has straight front legs - not back at the knee at all. His pasterns are a good length and angle, and his tendons are clean. He doesn't have the most bone, but a large frame.

                                      The questions: He's got quite the noticeable jumpers bump/hump that is very high. Because of this, he looks butt high from the side. His neck ties in a little low for my liking too.

                                      He'll be 5 in the new year, so I guess he's too old to hope he'll grow out of looking so downhill? Or will he?

                                      Thanks again


                                      • #20
                                        Light bone on a large frame? Downhill TB out of a quick maturing line of TBs ready to race at 2? Neck ties in low? That stuff is 99% going to be what he is. What has he been doing riding wise or has he been sitting basically idle?
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.