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Was 2003EuroChamps, then "deleted", now: Relationship btw the TD, CD & GJ?

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  • Was 2003EuroChamps, then "deleted", now: Relationship btw the TD, CD & GJ?

    See Post #30

    [I'm going to delete these clips after a day or so--so watch them while you can! DELETED-DELETED-DELETED
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl6sh...eature=channel (course tour--image improves after first few seconds), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Inb1...eature=channel (first riders on course), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyQ81...eature=channel (next riders on course)]

    Does anyone remember these? At Punchestown? Do you remember the course? Some of the amazingly elaborate jumps and complexes?

    What I want to know is why (or "whether," since I could be just ignorant) there wasn't any outcry about the xc course design afterward? In watching the tape, that course sure looked comparable to Red Hills last year--worse, in some ways. A tunnel? Waterfalls coming down from overhead? Water trickling in a pool inside a jump followed by a blind slide--and preceded only three or four strides earlier on bending line by three steps!)

    Every single horse shown on the tape came out of the tunnel over an upright into water by landing absolutely four-footed. A huge jarring let down followed by two strides up a bank to bounce over a skinny. Wow. By the time the 3rd team riders were going, nearly every team left chose to go the long way.

    How come there wasn't a hue and cry over that course?

    Speaking of past courses--and along the lines of some other threads going on right now--what DID happen to the ski-jump/slide?
    Last edited by pwynnnorman; Dec. 9, 2008, 09:49 AM.
    Sportponies Unlimited
    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

  • #2
    Pwynn

    At that time there wasn't U-tube, and people actually had to buy a video to watch. Facebook wasn't an every day occurance. BB like the COTH had much fewer particpants. High speed internet wasn't a given. There hadn't been such a rash of horse/rider fatalities so people weren't watch as closely?

    All of those things combined made word travel slower, if at all, I think.

    LAZ

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by pwynnnorman View Post
      Does anyone remember these? At Punchestown? Do you remember the course? Some of the amazingly elaborate jumps and complexes?

      What I want to know is why (or "whether," since I could be just ignorant) there wasn't any outcry about the xc course design afterward? In watching the tape, that course sure looked comparable to Red Hills last year--worse, in some ways. A tunnel? Waterfalls coming down from overhead? Water trickling in a pool inside a jump followed by a blind slide--and preceded only three or four strides earlier on bending line by three steps!)

      Every single horse shown on the tape came out of the tunnel over an upright into water by landing absolutely four-footed. A huge jarring let down followed by two strides up a bank to bounce over a skinny. Wow. By the time the 3rd team riders were going, nearly every team left chose to go the long way.

      How come there wasn't a hue and cry over that course?

      Speaking of past courses--and along the lines of some other threads going on right now--what DID happen to the ski-jump/slide?

      I was actually there at that event, it was a typical Tommy Brennan course design...a bit over the top from a design point of view for sure...but with regards to the water jump you speak of, it was do-able. The tunnel with the water fall looked worse from the "back side" but on approach not so bad. The horses did seem to be shocked to hear/see that water fall and as a result they did jump ackwardly off the drop into the water which made the jump up the back in the water some what ore challenging. But it should be noted that the alternate route was VERY fair but expremely expensive (about 30 seconds) with time. Even with all the trouble, Nicholas still chose to go the fast route and successfully negociated that jump. I do not think you can or should compare this course to that of Redhills last spring. They were two different beasts from a course design point of view.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Nicholas got lucky, IMO--and that horse is just all heart (and both are the epitome of sport)!

        Interesting comments. And I should have known you'd have been there. Is there anyplace you HAVEN'T been? Ah, I know: Gawler. Surely?

        I actually found the course fun to watch, but the hills and the elaborate stuff sure seemed excessive and Red Hills-like. But I'm sure you're right that they weren't. Too bad the sport isn't more televised. It'd be a lot of fun to share similar impressions of other courses.

        Anyway, thanks! Getting that response was satisfying enough.
        Sportponies Unlimited
        Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

        Comment


        • #5
          Is there a link to any online video footage of the course?

          Comment


          • #6
            Isn't 'Punchestown' the Irish word for 'scary'?

            (Seriously, that course has always been pushing the limits of sanity. I thought riders took that into consideration when deciding which horses to enter there.)

            Comment


            • #7
              Yep, it's a bit insane. I walked around it unflagged when they were running the big Punchestown race meet. The races were definitely beyond my limits of bravery. There were also some XC jumps that were so crazy, it took us a while to figure out HOW you were supposed to jump them (probably it was partly the missing flags, but still...).
              Blugal

              You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

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              • #8
                Originally posted by pwynnnorman View Post
                Nicholas got lucky, IMO--and that horse is just all heart (and both are the epitome of sport)!

                Interesting comments. And I should have known you'd have been there. Is there anyplace you HAVEN'T been? Ah, I know: Gawler. Surely?

                I actually found the course fun to watch, but the hills and the elaborate stuff sure seemed excessive and Red Hills-like. But I'm sure you're right that they weren't. Too bad the sport isn't more televised. It'd be a lot of fun to share similar impressions of other courses.

                Anyway, thanks! Getting that response was satisfying enough.


                I realize it may sometimes sounds so...yuck! "There is that snoops bragging again", but for those who live or have lived in the UK for any length of time will know that getting to most if not all european events is not all that difficult. I am very fortunate to have been to all of the major events. Air travel is cheap with in europe. I miss that being in the USA.

                The only way I can describe the difference is that yes punchestown is a bit "over the top" in terms of decoration, the course itself is alot fairer on the horses. Tommy does these little rider frightener things but USUALLY the horses do well. It is definately on the steep side of a three star for sure, but more often than not the course is pretty flowing, galloping and does not trick the horses like I believe redhills to have. The europeans that year is NOT indicative of what you normally see at punchestown. I will admit some of those questions at those europeans were pushing the bounderies. But Redhills has always been a course that was tricky for the horses...up to height fences with little approach or blind off corner jumping. Last spring was excessive and I am hoping that Mark has re-evaluated some of the questions he asked this year and that next year's course will be challenging but fair.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  OK, I'm trying something--just for fun and feedback. I'm uploading video of the video onto YouTube, but keeping it private so as not to break any copyright rules, etc. I taped the intro to the course segment and the first three or so rides, so you can see what the jumps were and how they rode. When it tells me how to give folks access, I'll edit this post with the info. Be interested to hear more impressions. Also interesting to see if this way of sharing will work.
                  Sportponies Unlimited
                  Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pwynnnorman View Post
                    OK, I'm trying something--just for fun and feedback. I'm uploading video of the video onto YouTube, but keeping it private so as not to break any copyright rules, etc. I taped the intro to the course segment and the first three or so rides, so you can see what the jumps were and how they rode. When it tells me how to give folks access, I'll edit this post with the info. Be interested to hear more impressions. Also interesting to see if this way of sharing will work.

                    This is interesting...and I look forward to hear the thoughts of others. It is too bad that you have not had the pleasure...I think...of going to europe to watch the big events. I really think you would enjoy it on many different levels. How about, you, me and Badminton next spring?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Luhmuehlen would be worth a trip.
                      Have you been there Snoopy. My favoured was Axelschwing, a real beast, nasty as they come and a bit.

                      I have to go next year to Germany, I have to check when Luh is could plan the trip around it.
                      That I have no use for them, does not mean, that I don't know them and don't know how to use them.
                      Caveman extraordinair

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I see you are enjoying the videos!

                        That course is a bear! The waterfall slide just looked scary!
                        When life gives you lemons. . .say &%^# you lemons! And throw those lemons back in life's face so that it will be afraid of you and won't try that crap again!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gnep View Post
                          Luhmuehlen would be worth a trip.
                          Have you been there Snoopy. My favoured was Axelschwing, a real beast, nasty as they come and a bit.

                          I have to go next year to Germany, I have to check when Luh is could plan the trip around it.


                          yes I have been to both on a number of occasions and I truly believe luhmuehlen to be one of the most brilliant venues. It continues to go from strength to strength. It is a challenging space and am amazed at what I see there. I have only been to Acelschwang when the held young riders championships.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Well, I tried to make these "private," but for some reason, nothing is different now that they are uploaded--they say "public."

                            Oh, well. I'll take a chance and leave them up at least temporarily:

                            Here's the course walk/intro (the image improves after the first few seconds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl6shs-uayw

                            First horses on course (sorry that it starts with a fall): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Inb1...eature=channel

                            Next horses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyQ81...eature=channel
                            Sportponies Unlimited
                            Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks for posting, Wynn, this is fascinating. My first impression is that it is a very "looky" course but the horses seem to be able to keep a good rhythm.
                              SportHorseRiders.com
                              Taco Blog
                              *T3DE 2010 Pact*

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                              • #16
                                I was there.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  If I remember correctly there was some controversy about that course and other past European Championships. I'd have to go through my video collection to find interviews....
                                  Boss Mare Eventing Blog
                                  https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by CookiePony View Post
                                    Thanks for posting, Wynn, this is fascinating. My first impression is that it is a very "looky" course but the horses seem to be able to keep a good rhythm.

                                    That is exactly the way it was. I have not looked at the videos but I do remember the RAIN that day!!!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Nice island weather ?

                                      But the differance to todays course is aparent, at least from these clips, no stadium combinations and no artificial obsacles in the aproaches and none of those jump-land-90 degree gallop away turns.
                                      I realy love the waterfall jump, it reminds me of cuty we had at home, bank into a fast running stream 3 strides up stream to a bridge across the stream and than 2 stides up bank, it was fun
                                      That I have no use for them, does not mean, that I don't know them and don't know how to use them.
                                      Caveman extraordinair

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        What ever happened to Susan Short and that awesome little mare Just Beauty Queen?? She surely made that track look like a 1*!
                                        RIP Kid Gloves (Holly) 1992 TBxHanv CCI*** mare.
                                        http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/holly
                                        New mare: Miss Bunny Express (Missy) 1995 AQHA Jumper mare.
                                        http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/missy

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