• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Long format and the non-TB

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Long format and the non-TB

    I'm aiming my gelding for a 1/2*, probably fall 2010 if all goes well. The T3D thread got me thinking.

    He is a Percheron/TB cross, but is very drafty. Though currently competing BN, he'll go T when he's ready, no problem. He's a good jumper, eats technical questions for lunch, and handily makes the time at BN.

    What do you think about running a non-TB type long format? Although my horse is half-TB, you probably wouldn't know it unless I told you. I'm confident in my ability to fit him up properly, but how do these bigger guys handle a lower-level long format? Special considerations?

  • #2
    My warmblood devoured the Midsouth CCI*. It was the best thing I could have done with him. No other special considerations at the show, just making sure that he was properly fit before hand. He's a Dutch Warmblood/Selle Francais cross with only 1/4tb blood and 17h.

    I just spent a lot of time hacking him around at the show so he wouldn't stiffen. I hacked him before the jog sunday morning and that loosened him right up. But other than that, your fitness regime is the most important part.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jazzy Lady View Post
      My warmblood devoured the Midsouth CCI*. It was the best thing I could have done with him. No other special considerations at the show, just making sure that he was properly fit before hand. He's a Dutch Warmblood/Selle Francais cross with only 1/4tb blood and 17h.

      I just spent a lot of time hacking him around at the show so he wouldn't stiffen. I hacked him before the jog sunday morning and that loosened him right up. But other than that, your fitness regime is the most important part.

      I would argree...I have never been a fan of pure TB's...having a boney electric bottom.....and have always evented part warmbloods who did not have trouble with the long format. Fitness is the key for sure and found that I had to do advanced level fitness work for prelim long format with a few. But as long as they are not overtly heavy in their build and they were light on their feet, I found WB's/WB cross to be sounder mentally and physically. I have had no trouble with the demands of the long format at 1,2, or 3 star level with a warmblood. "FOR ME" the TB was highly over rated and I could never seem to put it all together at the upper levels with one.

      Comment


      • #4
        OP, I've got a schedule I used to get my BIG warmblood fit for the T3d...but it's really just a classic * schedule, from Sally O'Connor's book, "shrunk down" to 1/2 star size -- so in other words, I did about what a classic TB person might have done to prepare for a long format, proportionally speaking.

        My horse was in TERRIFIC shape -- absolutely bouncing off the ground in SJ the final day.

        Actually, according to the vets in the box that year, the biggest horses in the competition were the fittest. One of the biggest horses there (bigger than mine, which is saying something, as he's 17.2 or so and wears size 4 shoes and XL everything) won best conditioned.

        Just make sure you do LOTS of slow hacking as well as your speed work. Put him on a schedule at least 10 weeks out and do not cheat!!
        The big man -- my lost prince

        The little brother, now my main man

        Comment


        • #5
          Not to thread jack (too much), but what about a full draft, say, for example, a Percheron?

          I have long since given up the idea of being able to make it to a T3D with my horse, but is it possible?

          The OP's horse is pretty drafty, how drafty is too drafty?

          Comment


          • #6
            confession time

            Hi folks,

            So I am a die hard TB chick..........it is all I know!!! We are talking galloped on the track for two seasons, never owned anything but a TB, etc etc. Along comes Schultzie, my father in laws Canadian draft cross. He is basically our guest hunt horse and the guests were dwindling. So I take him on as a resale and wouldn`t you know it................I like him!!! So I find myself with my beloved TB and Schultzie, trying to event them both in 09. I worry that his heavy way of going will compromise his soundness but after 4 seasons of hunting in all 3 fields, not a problem. If I can get him tuned up enough for a T3DE and my father in law does not decide to sell him, I will give it a shot. I look forward to reading about other drafties. He is a bit of a chicken but jeez, he will go all day behind hounds and sound as a dollar. So long format here we come! (that of course will be on the very slow boat, life just seems to get in my d@#$ way!)
            Susan
            http://community.webshots.com/user/ss3777
            www.longformatclub.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wookiee View Post
              Not to thread jack (too much), but what about a full draft, say, for example, a Percheron?

              I have long since given up the idea of being able to make it to a T3D with my horse, but is it possible?

              The OP's horse is pretty drafty, how drafty is too drafty?

              Hate to be a downer but I would think a full draft is too much...and wouldn't want to put the pounding on a draft cross that was very drafty either. That isn't fair to them. They were not built for speed or jumping and that pounding is hard on them. Even if they can do it, they are at a much higher risk of injury....I've know lots of drafties that I loved. We had a full one that was a great vaulting horse and w/t horse....but not known any that I thought should be eventing.

              That said, many draft crosses fox hunt. If they are light enough to handle hunting in first flight (well at least first flight in the country in these parts)....then they are generally fine for a 1/2* or even a * long format....and some even higher. I knew a draft cross (1/4 perch) that evented at Advanced....but she wasn't very drafty/heavy.
              Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Nov. 30, 2008, 08:09 PM.
              ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by flypony74 View Post
                I'm aiming my gelding for a 1/2*, probably fall 2010 if all goes well. The T3D thread got me thinking.

                He is a Percheron/TB cross, but is very drafty. Though currently competing BN, he'll go T when he's ready, no problem. He's a good jumper, eats technical questions for lunch, and handily makes the time at BN.

                What do you think about running a non-TB type long format? Although my horse is half-TB, you probably wouldn't know it unless I told you. I'm confident in my ability to fit him up properly, but how do these bigger guys handle a lower-level long format? Special considerations?
                I ran a QH/Trak at the * level (LF) and a TB/Hanv at the *** (LF).

                My QHx took a bit more conditioning work but I think he ran around and felt as sound & bouncy at the end as my Tb/Hanv.

                I think if you take the extra time to condition him correctly then you should have no problem

                Heck, in the next couple years I am going to take a full QH around a T3DE
                RIP Kid Gloves (Holly) 1992 TBxHanv CCI*** mare.
                http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/holly
                New mare: Miss Bunny Express (Missy) 1995 AQHA Jumper mare.
                http://photobucket.com/tx3dayeventer/missy

                Comment


                • #9
                  OP, I am a TB person all the way; personality, way of going, it's just...me, I guess! Love them.

                  That said, I have gotten to really appreciate these drafty crosses! They are fun and hardworking and handy! if a good cross. There is a Perch/TB cross at my barn who did a * last fall, and did it WELL (Midsouth), so it can most definitely be done and well, too.

                  I think a lot of it depends on how draft is drafty? If super heavy, I'm not entirely sure a long format, or really, a stringent conditioning and competition schedule to get to a 1/2 or * is the way to go. That's a lot to ask of those heavy horses. More than hunting first flight, IMO, with the stop-go on a typical hunting day (not the screaming runs! ).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a draft-x...not really sure what he is, but he definatly has draft in him, he is very light on his feet and fast, I did a 1/2 star this summer and he came out of it great, i didn't do much more on the way of fitness than a regular ht, but now that i am planning on doing a 1*, his fitness regime has been upped(hes not to pleased with me). Remember each horse is an individual and its needs are different, so you will not know without trying...remember bigger the bones, harder the impact, more wear and tear.
                    http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p...r/DSC_1428.jpg

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by three_dayer View Post
                      I have a draft-x...not really sure what he is, but he definatly has draft in him, he is very light on his feet and fast, I did a 1/2 star this summer and he came out of it great, i didn't do much more on the way of fitness than a regular ht, but now that i am planning on doing a 1*, his fitness regime has been upped(hes not to pleased with me). Remember each horse is an individual and its needs are different, so you will not know without trying...remember bigger the bones, harder the impact, more wear and tear.

                      To clarify what I posted earlier....for me....if they are light on their feet...I don't consider them super drafty. I DO think draft-x can event at the highest levels (and they have) but not ones that are super drafty. A lot of the 1/4 or 1/8 cross are super. I had a jumper that was a 1/8 clyde and that sucker could JUMP....but he was also very light on his feet. For any horse....if I can feel the ground shake when the canter by....whether a draft cross or full TB....I don't want to event that horse as I think the conditioning would cause them to break down but that is just my opinion.
                      Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Dec. 1, 2008, 10:00 AM.
                      ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Uncle Felton

                        1/4 perch 3/4 TB did rolex multiple times in the 80's. Looked like a largish irish horse. But after all aren't the Irish Sport Horses part Irish draught/draft?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by broodmare View Post
                          1/4 perch 3/4 TB did rolex multiple times in the 80's. Looked like a largish irish horse. But after all aren't the Irish Sport Horses part Irish draught/draft?


                          Yes....but the ones that compete at the higher levels have not been super "drafty" or in other words, were not super heavy. They had more substance than a full TB but didn't look like a full draft. Draft crosses have been competing successfully in eventing and jumpers for a very long time.
                          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thanks for your replies. Here is the equine in question:
                            http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...YSept08web.jpg
                            http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/m...lassique_1.jpg

                            He has a very drafty build but isn't huge at only 14.3hh. If you let him plunk along on his forehand he can be a bit of a ground pounder, but ridden correctly, he is surprisingly light on his feet.

                            I'm not terribly concerned about the concussion issue because he is conditioned very slowly/correctly, I am VERY particular about his footing (hard ground), and he has good/solid/sound conformation. If I felt at any time that his training was negatively impacting him, at any level, I'd back off immediately and focus on another goal. I have no problem doing that, and I'm tuned in enough to know.

                            I guess I was wondering more about the fitness aspect of getting a horse like this LF fit. I spent summers in college riding and conditioning with a friend who was running FEI (I had the fittest Novice horse out there!), so I know what it takes to really fit one up (with obvious adjustments for a harder-to-fit-up non-TB), just wasn't sure if it was possible to get a heavier horse LF fit. Granted it is only Training, and I won't take him beyond that. I guess I'll get more answers as he progresses through the levels.

                            FWIW, he's always well under time at BN (to the point where I now write the SF time on my arm) at a comfortable pace, and recovers very quickly. At KY Classique in Sept, he came off a long, technical x-c looking for more.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I evented my 1/2 Belgian 1/2 QH to Preliminary level successfully until I moved on to my full TB. I say just take it level by level and see how he does. Some can do it, some can't, and you'll know. If you're having fun then I wouldn't worry too much about moving up and what you can do and what you can't. I will say this - if you want to be competitve at Prelim or above, I don't think most draft crosses can compete with the lighter guys. At least in my experience, hence why I made the extremely hard decision to move on. However, it sounds like you just want to go Training with him and we were very competitive there. I followed the fitness schedule for the 1* in Sally O'Connors book and we were fine all the way through Prelim.

                              Here is a pic my draft cross with me at Prelim.

                              ETA: His radiographs showed just barely the start of arthritis in his hocks (which was better than normal) and otherwise he was completely clean everywhere else which was phenomenal for a horse who evented heavily into his mid-teens.

                              http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u...sonJumping.jpg

                              and an old picture just so you can see how heavy he is
                              http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u...Morse04dr1.jpg

                              He's now teaching a beginning rider how to event/ride and loving it. Popping over 2' fences and living the life.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                I have no plans to take him above Training.

                                When I got him at four, I didn't have high hopes for him, as I was just looking for a horse to go out and have fun on, after a traumatic accident. I knew he'd do BN, maybe N. But as he's grown up and progressed, I've been pleasantly surprised at his ability and competitiveness. We school around N stuff without batting an eye, and have schooled a reasonable bit of T comfortably. Some individual P fences are starting to look doable, though I have no plans to ever compete him at that level.

                                He's still a little green....can handle technical questions and fence height beyond his current competitive level, but he just needs mileage to get more consistent.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  He is very cute! To me, the fitness they need at the T3D isn't substantially more than what they need to run Training HT. It is meant to be an educational experience....not a huge endurance run. If you get up to training and he is handling that well....you should be fine. It sounds like you already know how to get a horse fit....just remember that there is a fine line between doing enough and doing too much. You need to do enough to get him fit but the goal should be to not get him over fit because that means you added more wear and tear on him than was needed.
                                  ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Take a look at the Sally O C * schedule already mentioned on this thread -- I ramped this down for my T3d and it worked great. Basically you do one traditional interval day and one "long trot/walk hack" day for your conditioning -- so you "gallop" at most every 10 days. For the T3d I worked up to 25 mins straight trotting and an additional 1.5 hour walk hack on hills for the long trot day. Worked great. For Prelim I was up to about 40 mins trotting and he had plenty of gas in the tank.

                                    Lots of long slow work does wonders for the heavier guys...
                                    The big man -- my lost prince

                                    The little brother, now my main man

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      A lot of "Canadian Sporthorses" are some variation of a Belgian/TB cross and have been pretty successful over the years - try googling Yves Landry and Napierville, Quebec for some results. Don't forget a lot of these draft crosses think nothing of going for several hours over indifferent ground & fences if they're in a hunt field - maybe not as fast but just as stamina-sapping.
                                      Brock
                                      Brock n. (Anglo-Saxon) badger as in Brockenhurst, Brocklebank etc www.area35.us

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X