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County Saddlery-- How "adjustable?"

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  • County Saddlery-- How "adjustable?"

    Ok guys, I did it. I finally broke down and made an appointment to have a County rep to come out and do a custom fit for me and my horse. Originally I was going to use Custom Saddlery, but decided that I needed a jump saddle more than a dressage saddle AND their customer service was not something I wanted to mess around with. So County it is....

    Does anyone know how truely "adjustable" County saddles are? I'm looking at the Innovation and the Sensation. I was told by the rep that I can have it adjusted for only a minimal cost...$500 (Not very "minimal" if you ask me...but I'm less concerned about the money, than I am about actually being able to have it correctly adjusted). I have a young 4 year old and i know she will change shape, so I need to keep that in mind when spending $4k+ on a saddle.

    I tried going the "used" route until she finished growing, but she's now back sore from messing around with ill-fitting tack. I just want to make sure that I'm making the right decision. It's a lot of money, but I know we need to do something fit exactly for me (I'm tall!) and exactly for my horse (she's not as easy to fit as I thought!)

    Any experience?

    (I have tried "adjustable" saddles ie: Hastilow and I wasn't impressed with anything I found. For one reason or another, bad fit for me or bad fit for the horse).

  • #2
    Where are you located? The rep from this region is terrific (VA, MD, NC). You can get new panels in for a substantial sum but reflocking is much much less than 500.

    The County is fully custom and I think it's the best of the best. I have three and will add a fourth by the end of this year: Perfection, Connection, and Conquest, currently (the Conquest is on order). I will be adding another Conquest later on this year.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I am in Southeast Pennsylvania, so I will be meeting with Alisa. I'm so glad you have had a good experience!! I am looking at jump saddles, and then will probably consider dressage saddles once she decides she "likes" County Saddlery. lol

      Thanks for your input!

      Comment


      • #4
        My horses love my counties - I have a stabilizer, a conquest, 2 innovations, and a connection. They are sooo happy to move in them. The flocking is adjustable as on all wool paneled saddles, but the trees aren't adjustable like they are on the Custom saddlery saddles. Our rep only charges about $75 to adjust the flocking.
        Blacktree Farm
        Lessons, Training & Sporthorse Sales.
        Blacktree Studio
        Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.

        Comment


        • #5
          Unless Gene Freeze has changed things quite radically, Countys are still built on spring trees, which means one adjustment wider or narrower, one tree size, one time.
          Kitt Hazelton
          Saddle Fitter
          www.pantherrunsaddlery.com
          www.saddlefitter.blogspot.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Agree with Kitt: there are plenty of valid reasons to go with County, but "adjustability" isn't one of them. County is no more or less adjustable than any other wool-flocked saddle built on a traditional wood-and-steel spring tree.

            JMHO but if I had a growing four year old, I would personally go to great lengths to avoid buying a brand-new high end saddle. That's just begging to lose $1500-$2000 in resale value. If you like County, consider working with your rep to identify the ideal County for you + your horse, then buy a used one. Unless you fall in love with one of their very new models, like the Sensation, County saddles are pretty widely available on the used market.
            Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jsydney5 View Post
              Ok guys, I did it. I finally broke down and made an appointment to have a County rep to come out and do a custom fit for me and my horse.

              Does anyone know how truely "adjustable" County saddles are? I'm looking at the Innovation and the Sensation. I was told by the rep that I can have it adjusted for only a minimal cost...$500 (Not very "minimal" if you ask me...but I'm less concerned about the money, than I am about actually being able to have it correctly adjusted). I have a young 4 year old and i know she will change shape, so I need to keep that in mind when spending $4k+ on a saddle.
              I suspect that $500 fee is in reference to the saddle going back to the UK for a new tree etc, so yes, a minimal cost in that respect.

              I'm having difficulties imagining a horse that does equally well in a Sensation & Innovation.

              Go into your demo with an open mind about which saddle, talk to your rep about saddles off the demo list or used kit saddles that may work - some of these are very well priced.



              I tried going the "used" route until she finished growing, but she's now back sore from messing around with ill-fitting tack.
              Going used does not mean settling for a saddle that does not fit or hasn't been adjusted to fit either through flocking or educated shimming (it really is an art, most people that casually shim don't understand where the pressure points transfer to, or haven't assessed tree angles etc).
              Do you have reasonable access to saddle fitters?

              Have you posted back conformation photos of your horse here - generally that will get you some decent suggestions of saddles to focus on.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by jn4jenny View Post

                JMHO but if I had a growing four year old, I would personally go to great lengths to avoid buying a brand-new high end saddle. That's just begging to lose $1500-$2000 in resale value. If you like County, consider working with your rep to identify the ideal County for you + your horse, then buy a used one. Unless you fall in love with one of their very new models, like the Sensation, County saddles are pretty widely available on the used market.
                I have DEFINITELY gone to great lengths to avoid buying a $4k+ saddle. Ugh, the amount of times i have shipped saddles back and forth...I could buy a nice little OTTB for the same amount of money spent :$ My problem is that I'm 5'10 and have a hard time finding a saddle with an extra forward/long flap. Combine that with searching for a saddle to fit an uphill warmblood with some fitting issues, and it's been a nightmare. About 9 months of searching, until I've finally given up!

                I hired a highly recommended generic saddle fitter to bring out some used saddles and was severely disappointed. She brought two saddles with her for me to sit in. I finally decided to go the County Saddlery route, as I tried some of the adjustable saddles and couldnt fall in love with the "balance" of the saddles I tried.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by alto View Post
                  I suspect that $500 fee is in reference to the saddle going back to the UK for a new tree etc, so yes, a minimal cost in that respect.

                  I'm having difficulties imagining a horse that does equally well in a Sensation & Innovation.

                  Go into your demo with an open mind about which saddle, talk to your rep about saddles off the demo list or used kit saddles that may work - some of these are very well priced.




                  Going used does not mean settling for a saddle that does not fit or hasn't been adjusted to fit either through flocking or educated shimming (it really is an art, most people that casually shim don't understand where the pressure points transfer to, or haven't assessed tree angles etc).
                  Do you have reasonable access to saddle fitters?

                  Have you posted back conformation photos of your horse here - generally that will get you some decent suggestions of saddles to focus on.
                  I have posted conformation photos on here, and have gotten advice from a distance, but that didnt work out so well and I had to send a saddle back....again. I have a mattes pad that I've used on my mare, but have not shimmed it.

                  Alto- I would love a short educational conversation about the "art of shimming" if you are willing to share some pointers. Obviously I know the basics... ex: shim the front if you need to narrow the fit OR to lift the front of the pommel...but if you have pointers to understand shimming a little better, please feel free to share!! Thanks!!

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    oops, I'm sorry I double posted!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jsydney5 View Post
                      I have DEFINITELY gone to great lengths to avoid buying a $4k+ saddle. Ugh, the amount of times i have shipped saddles back and forth...I could buy a nice little OTTB for the same amount of money spent :$ My problem is that I'm 5'10 and have a hard time finding a saddle with an extra forward/long flap. Combine that with searching for a saddle to fit an uphill warmblood with some fitting issues, and it's been a nightmare. About 9 months of searching, until I've finally given up!

                      I hired a highly recommended generic saddle fitter to bring out some used saddles and was severely disappointed. She brought two saddles with her for me to sit in. I finally decided to go the County Saddlery route, as I tried some of the adjustable saddles and couldnt fall in love with the "balance" of the saddles I tried.
                      You aren't "giving up" so much as (accidentally?) adopting a more savvy strategy: resigning to buy something less adjustable but with excellent resale value. I know very few folks who made it from horse age 4 to horse age 8 without at least 2-3 saddles along the way, even (and actually, especially if) they bought adjustable-gullet saddles. So IMO the ballgame should really be less "finding the most adjustable saddle out there" and more "purchasing a moderately adjustable saddle that works well right now and will resell quickly and at close to what I paid for it when the time comes." County fits that description, as does Albion, and they're both well-known for accommodating longer-legged riders. Hastilow has poor resale; the brand recognition is still low in the US, so buyers are reluctant to purchase it used. So it's probably for the best that you didn't find something in the Hastilow lineup that worked for you.

                      BUT my point is that if you pay $4000 for something that works perfectly right now, you are very likely to need to resell it sometime in the next 2-3 years. Buying at $4000 now will just delay your annoyance and pain for a few years, at which point you'll lose a bundle on resale. That might sound tempting now, but it will not be cute at all if/when it happens in the middle of a show season or when your horse is very sore etc. And honestly, buying used is probably going to get you into the right saddle faster anyway. A new County will generally have an 8- to 12-week manufacturing period. So unless the rep sells you a demo out of the truck--a great option, by the way, and don't forget to ask if he/she can give you an additional discount if you pay cash!--finding a used one will probably take less time than ordering new.

                      While it is theoretically possible to swap out a tree in a County saddle, it's usually the more financially savvy move to not swap out the tree. It takes too long and costs too much. The exception, again, is if you didn't pay much for the saddle to begin with or the saddle is so super-custom in other regards that its worth salvaging it (example: a fully custom Stackhouse where the flap was literally drawn around your leg so that it fits you purrrrrfectly). And widening/narrowing a tree by one size doesn't have to be pricey. Smith Worthington in Connecticut does it for very reasonable prices, typically under $200.
                      Last edited by jn4jenny; Feb. 2, 2014, 09:57 PM.
                      Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jsydney5 View Post
                        Alto- I would love a short educational conversation about the "art of shimming" if you are willing to share some pointers. Obviously I know the basics... ex: shim the front if you need to narrow the fit OR to lift the front of the pommel...but if you have pointers to understand shimming a little better, please feel free to share!! Thanks!!
                        Sorry I'm crap at shimming - my only grace being that I realize I'm lousy at it

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alto View Post
                          Sorry I'm crap at shimming - my only grace being that I realize I'm lousy at it
                          To alto's credit, it's not an easy thing. Generally, the person you want to have a brilliant convo about shimming with is the same person who excels at adjusting wool flocking. Good shimming often involves cutting the shim to a more specific size, using a shim out of a particular material that is more or less squishy, knowing when to take the shim out or change the shimming solution (since it won't compress itself over time the way wool overflocking will, etc.) A well-trained County fitter is usually such a person, so feel free to ask whomever you've called out for advice in that department.
                          Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Shimming is a good band-aid, but if at all possible, shouldn't be used as a long-term solution (there are exceptions to this, of course, but they're usually rather extreme circumstances). It's also a bit counter-intuitive; if the saddle's falling to the right, say, often you have to shim the right rear and left front, or vice-versa. So you need to experiment to find what configuration works. And sometimes shims won't fix the issue, period.
                            Kitt Hazelton
                            Saddle Fitter
                            www.pantherrunsaddlery.com
                            www.saddlefitter.blogspot.com

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Kitt- I think what I need right now, is a "band-aid," not necessarily a long term solution. You and I have talked about my mare before, so you know she's going to have some growing/changing shape over the next few years. I think if I can shim, that will be the most helpful situation for my wallet AND for my horse's happiness as she continues to grow.

                              I'm not sure how to tell if shimming will fix our issues or not. I dont think my horse is too hard of a fit. I just think right now she is changing shape. I would love to learn more about shimming to be sure I'm doing it correctly.

                              Kitt- what is your favorite shimmable half pad? Mattes/Thinline etc? And what is your favorite type of shim? Felt/wool, foam or what? Thanks!!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Kitt View Post
                                Shimming is a good band-aid, but if at all possible, shouldn't be used as a long-term solution (there are exceptions to this, of course, but they're usually rather extreme circumstances). It's also a bit counter-intuitive; if the saddle's falling to the right, say, often you have to shim the right rear and left front, or vice-versa. So you need to experiment to find what configuration works. And sometimes shims won't fix the issue, period.
                                Ma'am,
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                                Amber
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                                • #17
                                  I also love my county saddles (generally ride ottb's of various shapes) and I own several stablizers, a hybrid stablizer seat with conquest flap, conquest and connection dressage saddle. I have various tree widths. That being said skid row panels (if the saddle has them) and wool flocking can get you some alterations. They can only go one tree size if you send the saddle back but I have found it never really is the same and it takes forever to get it back.

                                  Most horses will require different tree sizes as they grow. My conn/tb was in a medium at age 4, then medium wide at age 5 and then wide at age 6. The ottb's do tend to stay closer to the same shape in my opinion but it all depends.

                                  I had the rep come out and fit me and the horse early on and figure out what I liked and what fit. Then I shopped used. Along the way I have bought a new saddle or two (I ride a lot of horses) but generally I buy used. It can be hard to find something for long legs but if you get a long forward flap or a high forward flap it can work.
                                  http://www.benchmarksporthorses.com/

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