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Stiff, grumpy mare--- where to begin...?

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  • Stiff, grumpy mare--- where to begin...?

    Student came home with a new horse this week-- I saw photos but they did all of the looking, trying etc. Saturday we had her first lesson. Since I had not seen the horse go as of yet, I told her to go ahead and warm up on her own as I watched to see what I could see as they went around. Immediately noticed she was grumpy, stiff/tense through her back... nose/face pushed straight in the air. My heart kind of sank! Mare was not enthused when student put leg on, but went when asked after some face making-- nose still shoved in to the air. Asked for the canter, LOTS more faces and a cow kick that hit the fence! Yikes. She did not get any better after warm up or throughout the 1/2 hr. I had her pop over a few cross rails at the end "just to see" and mare really perked up and got happy/enthusiastic.

    She is a 7 yr old Oldenburg (not branded) mare-- about 15.3 and has quite a long back in relation to the proportion of the rest of her body. She was doing straight Dressage with last owner but evented to BN over a year ago. They stated that she was far, FAR less tense/grumpy when they tried her a week and a half ago. Obviously saddle is a bit different (but fits extremely well), ring/surroundings are different but she passed her vetting with flying colors.

    So any suggestions on where I should tell them to begin? Obviously vet is coming out to recheck saddle fit, palpate back etc.. Do we think this is possibly just a grumpy mare who isn't used to the new rider? Maybe try a bute regiment for 4-5 days to see if this is really a pain issue rather then just 'tude? Bodywork person is coming back out to the farm in another week...going to suggest that too!

    Just a bit frustrated.. lots has gone wrong for this student this year, it just never ends I think this turned in to more of a vent then anything! I know the usual course to follow for the most part.. sighs.
    Last edited by SWpreciousfew; Dec. 31, 2013, 12:31 AM.
    -SW-
    Precious Few- 1998 OTTB

  • #2
    Originally posted by SWpreciousfew View Post
    Obviously saddle is a bit different (but fits extremely well), ring/surroundings are different but she passed her vetting with flying colors.
    Did they by chance pull blood samples? Other than being drugged up (or down, as the case were), unless she had some sort of incident between the trying and bringing her home I don't have any other ideas. Is her turnout/management/diet the same?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd go straight for a good chiro, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
      Originally posted by HuntrJumpr
      No matter what level of showing you're doing, you are required to have pants on.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd skip the chiro and put a couple training rides on her then if she doesn't improve call the vet. Do chiro then if you want.

        If the owner or a trainer rode her before your student got on they may have motivated her long enough for the student to have a good ride and now your student isn't educated enough to make the mare a believer. This would be my thought especially since she thought that jumping was much more fun. My grumpy mare does a total change during her flatwork when someone is in the ring setting fences. She knows she's getting a jumping lesson. It's a little annoying.
        http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Chiro/vet visit first. Ulcers from the move perhaps??

          Comment


          • #6
            I third the Chiro, Sounds like my old gelding would get when he was sore in his neck and back, the kicking out was a big indicator. Chiro regularly ended it.

            Comment


            • #7
              I guess I'm the odd man out here, but I'm always a bit befuddled when someone brings a new horse home and when said horse isn't exactly like the horse they tried it's "call the vet! call the chiro! call Oprah!"

              Of course check saddle fit, etc. But how about your student just spend a couple of weeks hacking, grooming, hand grazing. All that "let's get to know each other" stuff before the mare is expected to be anything. I've just found that some hours in the saddle without expectation is a smart beginning, especially for a beginner-ish rider.

              If any if that sounded snarky, I promise I didn't mean it to. Just another idea to add to the stew.
              Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

              The Grove at Five Points

              Comment


              • #8
                Sounds like a sore back/saddle fit, or possibly mouth issue. Normally the head straight up, is actually the shoulders down because the saddle pinches the shoulder when the horse tries to carry it's head properly. I would have a saddle fitter, not a vet, fit the saddle and ensure it is correct.
                https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have known several horses (usually mares) who react this way to an incorrectly used leg (rider digging in and backwards with heels). They get more and more behind the leg because the rider reacts to their being behind the leg by pushing harder.

                  You need to get on the horse and ride it three days in a row, then you will have some idea of what is eider and what is horse.

                  Of course check saddle fit, and try several different ones on within one ride.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The problem is it could be back pain from the saddle fit of the previous owner. Maybe a few days off first, then try a new saddle.
                    https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Even if the saddle looks like it fits, I would definitely try a different saddle for the next ride. My TB was ridden in a Butet that looked like a perfect fit but he was a veritable devil in it for his previous owner. Despite the looks, it had to have been pinching or rubbing something.

                      If the horse was different during the trial, I would make sure I did not put that saddle back on the horse until I was sure it wasn't the cause. Otherwise it might make him back sore in a lasting way. Borrow something else to use in the meantime.

                      I would also stop by Sam's and grab some ranitidine to start treating for ulcers for a couple of weeks (or pop rocks if you have them, I always keep them in stock). Anything that starts acting grumpy around here gets a course of ulcer meds. Moves are stressful and can cause a flareup. I tend to do two or three weeks on pop rocks and then, if I see improvement, move them on to a maintenance product like Uckele's GUT, with pop rocks used before and during travel/show/etc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sorry to hear about your students tuff year

                        On the other hand I think you are jumping the gun a bit. This is the horses first ride in a new environment with a new rider. I would wait a week and see if things get better. Time seems to heal all.

                        If that doesn't seem to help I would do what others suggest. Perhaps you should try riding the horse for a few rides as well. Maybe all this mare needs is a little tune up from a pro ever so often.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The title of this thread caught my eye... I have/had a grumpy mare. I tried Chiro, saddle fitting, tough love, ulcer treatments, massage, and a bute trial. She reacted the same way that your student's mare is. I'd apply my leg and she'd cowkick (then slam on the breaks and try to bite my leg).

                          Turns out she had arthritis in her hocks, which we discovered when she got a joint injury and needed x-rays of the areas. She's only 9, so I never even thought that arthritis was something to consider, but she's big (17.2). Her vet said that it wasn't totally uncommon. We're managing with a joint supplement and living out, she's comfortable and happy now. I think that she'll need hock injections when I really start asking her to sit down and collect herself.

                          Just something to chew on.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So many things to have to consider .... we had a mare with an engorged ovary - it was so big and cloudy that it looked like a 1950's snowy TV screen. And that was the second vet after the first one told me it was saddle fit ......
                            The cue card kid just held up an empty cue card. For a minute there I thought I had lost my sense of humor. --- Red Skelton

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My first thought when I read your title- are you sure she isn't just swinging into heat? We recently had two new geldings arrive at my barn and within a few days all the mares short cycled. Their arrival was during a little heatwave as well. Your mare being at a new barn, maybe?

                              Just trying to go for most simple answer on this one. I would give her a few days before jumping to any conclusions. I know my mare is sore and stiff, though not grumpy, when in heat, so I can't imagine if I threw a new saddle on top of that. She would, however, perk up when the jumps came out as well
                              RIP Charlie and Toby

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I would check all the health basics first, deworm, make sure feed program is good, check for thrush and ulcers. See how she is on the ground and with lunging, maybe try her out bareback or with another saddle. Chiro or massage can help, vet check for joint issues and a good teeth float might improve things too. After all that start looking for zebras.

                                I have found with stiff horses there is always pain involved, sometimes something like ulcers or joint problems, sometimes they are just anticipating discomfort and need some reschooling with a good rider.

                                *if she is consistently nasty you should have a good repro vet check her out, I have a friend whose mare was always kinda grumpy and they figured it for *just her* since she was mostly good under saddle, wasn't until she nearly killed my friend after randomly attacking her in the field, mare was put down and they discovered a huge tumor on her ovary.
                                for more Joy then you can handle
                                http://dangerbunny.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Hey guys thanks for all the great responses! Her "lesson" on Saturday was just kind of a get to know you ride with me kind of letting her do her thing and correcting minimally-- just trying to get a feel for how the kid and horse got along, making sure they were safe etc. It was their first ride since she tried her (she came Thursday so had 2 days to settle in). Love this student as she does hack usually minimally twice a week around the farm/trails etc and really tries to vary things. We are lucky enough to have a trail right off the farm, XC field and 1/2 mile stone dust track to ride on.

                                  Maresey had a day off on Sunday and then student rode her Monday with a different pad-- she said she was far better. Today had another lesson, a group this time--- with new saddle configuration AND the bit that she had ordered for her had come in-- double jointed happy mouth, holy cow what a difference! Whole different horse today! She actually went quite nicely and all I could do was breathe a sigh of relief.

                                  I know I was probably a bit premature BUT this student really has had a craptacular year horse wise. It just seemed as though no matter what they did things just wouldnt work for her! They thoroughly vetted her and had knees/hocks xrayed as well as some other views. They had two different horses come for trials earlier in the year-- one with an actual FRACTURE and the other with chips in both hocks at the time of xray that owners didnt disclose or just didnt know about, so they were taking no chances as far as vetting went with this one.

                                  I am saving every single one of these responses to look back on! Thanks again.. love the COTH support
                                  -SW-
                                  Precious Few- 1998 OTTB

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ACMEeventing View Post
                                    I guess I'm the odd man out here, but I'm always a bit befuddled when someone brings a new horse home and when said horse isn't exactly like the horse they tried it's "call the vet! call the chiro! call Oprah!"

                                    Of course check saddle fit, etc. But how about your student just spend a couple of weeks hacking, grooming, hand grazing. All that "let's get to know each other" stuff before the mare is expected to be anything. I've just found that some hours in the saddle without expectation is a smart beginning, especially for a beginner-ish rider.

                                    If any if that sounded snarky, I promise I didn't mean it to. Just another idea to add to the stew.
                                    You are exactly right, The horse in a strange place, new rider everything new, I agree one cannot expect them to be exactly the same. Excellent suggestion.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      My grumpy mare had EPSM... Turn out, regular exercise, and a diet low in NSC made all the difference.

                                      When I say regular exercise I mean we would have an event, give her a day or two off, and the next time I rode she would be GRUMPY and stiff! Even walking, or walking and trotting a little for 20 min a day made a huge difference.

                                      One other sign with her is her muscles are actually hard on her bad days... Maybe check diet, turnout, and workload before you spend lots of money...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Obviously, check saddle fit - it's one of the easiest to rule out. Don't know if Lyme disease is an issue where you are (it's a huge concern here in VT), but that and ulcers are two other things that can mimic saddle fit issues and often can be the cause of such behavior.
                                        Kitt Hazelton
                                        Saddle Fitter
                                        www.pantherrunsaddlery.com
                                        www.saddlefitter.blogspot.com

                                        Comment

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