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Chatt Hills 3* today - half division didn't finish, anyone know why?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
    Did anyone bring their concerns to the TD?
    I think as a whole we as riders need to start to speak up a bit. Granted, the time I have spoken up or convinced friends to speak up we get the "put your panties on and deal with it".
    So that makes it seem like a lost cause.

    Ya those brushes are down right stupid for Prelim. Def something you would pick off one at a time since they were labeled A and B. I think the wise way to go would have had prelim do A only. And then have the A and B for the *.

    sucks that such a great event is receiving less than stellar reviews.

    Make sure you turn in your event evaluation forms!!!
    Though I just went looking for "forms" on the useventing site and I can't find them. Haven't needed once since the change of site. Anyone care to post the link?
    Approximately 6, or 7?, of us spoke to the TD when we were down at the warm-up for the Intermediate xc. Many of us were new to the level or on green horses, and were planning to ride what we thought was an option in the arena complex. They had placed a table to a corner brush, then bending line to jump a roll top out of the ring. The table and corner were numbered as A & B but B had an option. Most of us had planned to take the time penalties, ride the option, and provide our horses with a confidence building experience. However, what we discovered, was that the course was designed so that there was no route to get to the option without first presenting to the corner. This was a VERY hard line, especially considering where it was placed on course. It was discussed with the TD, and we were told we would accrue 20 if we did not present to the corner.

    What I find so frustrating is that I am well prepared for the level, and this was a question I KNEW that my horse and I were not ready for. Our entire course ran the same track as the CIC**! Hello, what about those of us that have just moved up to the level, or heaven forbid, our going out on our first Intermediate trip??? My pony and I had done 10 Prelims, a CIC*, and one Intermediate, finishing all of them. We were one pair of nine, to finish out of our 20 horse field. We had a run out at the corner brush in the arena.

    Why aren't course designers providing us with an option? The rider can make the judgement call on whether or not their mount is ready for that type of question, or whether they'll take the time penalties, go the longer route, and build their horse's confidence? My poor pony tried his heart out for me, and although I don't think there will be any longterm issues from this incident (he's a cocky little bugger), I would preferred to have not faced him with that question yet.
    Fade to Grey Farm
    Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
    *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

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    • #42
      Originally posted by gold2012 View Post
      Wait, are you saying that Chatt didn't have any food vendors? REALLY? WOW. Okay, so we have a tent for just the 2 and 3 star riders...correct me here if I am wrong....but nothing for the one star riders, and the HT riders? Where did everyone eat? It's half hour to anything out there.....
      I hauled in, so for the most part this didn't affect me, but yes, from what I understand there were no food vendors except for the VIP tent. Where from what I heard, burgers were $8. I know that there were no food trucks on Friday because I was in the vicinity for course walks at lunch time; and I know that there were no food trucks on Sunday because when my ride was delayed, and we got hungry, we had to drive an hour round trip to go pick up food!
      Fade to Grey Farm
      Eventing, Foxhunting & Connemaras
      *NEW* website:www.fadetogreyfarm.com

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      • #43
        Well I was there as trianing level rider and I have also competed/volunteered at this event since it started in 2008. There is no learning curve involved as the most basic problems this past weekend have been made in the past at this venue including the placement of vendors, this was a repeat of the 2010 AECs, not enough food, problem at every AEC held there, so the organizational problems have been an issue before. An event evaluation will be sent by me as well as there were quite a few other problems at this show from the riders prespective.

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        • #44
          why did he get eliminated? I can only imagine his reaction! sorry - just had to ask!

          Comment


          • #45
            I was there doing BN. I had no problem with food...you could eat at the VIP tent for $15, drink and food buffet style. We had dinner there twice and breakfast once. At dinner, you could get a beer included for that price as well. I ate at the other vendor once...but I just really wanted normal food.

            They were nice to replace the shavings flooded out in the temporary stalls, but the office couldn't find the record of my shavings...so I only got one replaced for free and had to buy 2 more myself.

            Still porta-potties...but they had one "nice" porta-potty. I had to do SJ and XC on sunday, and just dressage on saturday. I ended up scratching after SJ because of the huge storm that hit around 12 pm on Sunday...I was scheduled to ride at 12:31. They restarted the show at 1:45 but I was just ready to pack it in.

            Our 1* and 2* horses went around XC well, so I can't comment on any of that.

            Comment


            • #46
              It saddens me to see this thread. Not because people have opinions (you're entitled!), or how they are being expressed (have at it!), but by the degree of misinformation and negative commentary. Let me see if I can ameliorate some concerns.

              I know that each person involved with the event appreciates constructive feedback, so many thanks to individuals who have provided such, either on this board, through email/calls, what have you. Chatt Hills truly wants to provide the best experience possible for riders, spectators, volunteers, and most importantly, the horses.

              I spent the week apprenticing with and assisting the XC course designer and builders, stadium designer, organizing committee, tech. delegates (FEI and nat'l), a couple incredible judges, and a bunch of phenomenal volunteers. The experience was indescribably remarkable, the roles I took on were innumerable, and I *highly* recommend that each and every rider, trainer, teacher, groom, parent, sibling, you name it, get involved with at least one event of this magnitude. It will forever change your perception of the sport for the better.

              I cannot address each individual post at this moment, so if you have direct concerns, please contact the organizer. I will answer what I can with facts (and to spare everyone a doctoral thesis, I will keep my opinion out of it. Personal blog comes later... hint: I side with the Ground Jury ).

              --This is a new event, a new organizing committee, and many new people on board. There is a learning curve, and even if some mistakes of the past were repeated, I can assure you that everything will be addressed for future events. If you've submitted an evaluation/feedback and haven't gotten a response, try again. If you're just frustrated, feel free to submit me, and I will pass it along the channels (going forward, I am the Chatt XC CD for BN - T, so I will try to assist in bettering everyone's experiences).

              --Having said that, you were dealing with some of the best of the best. This team of officials, builders, and designers are top of their game, and have successfully officiated/worked at the biggest national and international events (e.g.., Rolex, London 2012, Adelaide, Houghton, Gatcombe). Each one is pretty familiar with-- and a stickler to-- the rules.

              --Fact: The fences on each XC and stadium course met the standards, specifications, and parameters of the requirements respectively set out by USEF and FEI. I know these courses inside and out, so if you have a question, please let me know, and I'll try to explain my understanding. (I walked approximately 15 miles of XC courses-- through water, over each feasible fence-- to measure distances. I have an intimate relationship with Chatt courses.)

              -- Fact: The questions were all within level appropriateness. (Given the uproar on this board, apparently they succeeded in being rider-issue fences. ) The questions being asked were suitable and needed: Is your horse straight and connected? Can you hold a line? Can you hold a line through a turn? Can you appropriately adjust stride while holding a line?

              --Fact: The courses were actually soft FEI international standard-- in other words, softer and easier than the FEI courses of parallel level around the world. ETA: Regarding how the courses related to National standard, they were courses. Simply put. Maybe bit more than average, but nonetheless, just courses. Prelim was Prelim-- the CIC* had the ditch and wall and coop/brush turn question, while Prelim did not. Inter/CIC** was a good ride. Adv/CIC*** was solid but more than fair. Nothing was dangerous, inappropriate, or overly difficult. At that level of competition, you need to be prepared for a challenge, and you should be ready to step up to plate.

              --The upper-level courses invited and warranted forward, bold riding; "technical" is not an appropriate descriptor. Did the rider need to have a connected, balanced, fit horse? Yes. Did the horse need to be able to correctly respond to the rider's signals? Yes. Was correct riding needed? Yes. The courses tested skills and ability; they were not highly "technical."

              --As placed, the lower-level courses were very straightforward, easy, and gentle. Almost under level. Going forward, they will be inviting, forward-thinking courses, suitable for both first-time and experienced pairs. Options will be given. (As I mentioned above, I am now on board to design Chatt BN-T. Feedback and ideas are much welcome. Email me.)

              --As far as I know, majority of riders did not approach an official to discuss things. I had two riders ask me about the combinations in the arena. I clarified the questions, what the CD was thinking, and how things could be addressed. And, the questions rode very well for them. Go figure. Similarly, one BNR asked about the depth of the water in the Dew Pond (on the back of the course) for the Int/Adv, as she was walking the course. FEI TD sent me into the pond to measure (you're welcome), and it was well-within legal limits throughout the water. Ask a question, get an answer. Kinda cool.

              -- Going forward, when in doubt, ASK!! The organizers/officials are there to allow you to have a great ride and a great learning experience. No one is trying to trick you out, hurt you, or give you a bad experience. The goal is for everything to ride well and go well. If you had a concern with a fence, why didn't you inquire?

              --The organizer is highly receptive to feedback from competitors. However, given the hours put in by everyone (starting last Tuesday, not once did we get to bed before midnight) and degree of remaining exhaustion, I recommend that your feedback be constructive and upbeat. If you can't put your feedback in a constructive manner, self-reflect on life for a bit; maybe the event wasn't the issue.

              --One phrase: Rider responsibility. It's what this sport comes down to. It's why eventing exists. Let's keep our sport, our love, our lifestyle going.

              Again, many thanks to the riders, trainers, and volunteers who made this event possible, particularly to those who had a persistent positive attitude. It was a great week, and while there may be wrinkles to iron out, I can assure you that things will keep getting better. Please let us know your thoughts. Thank you so much!
              Last edited by Glenbaer; May. 21, 2013, 09:01 AM.
              www.glenbaer.com

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Glenbaer View Post
                It saddens me to see this thread. Not because people have opinions (you're entitled!), or how they are being expressed (have at it!), but by the degree of misinformation and negative commentary.
                --

                On COTH??! No, say it isn't so!

                This needs to be posted on another thread here as well.
                We're spending our money on horses and bourbon. The rest we're just wasting.
                www.dleestudio.com

                Comment


                • #48
                  Glenbaer, thank you for offering a tactful and informative response.
                  I have Higher Standards... do you?
                  Apalachicola Native (Alfie), '02 TB Gelding,
                  Wild Man of Borneo (Hank), '03 Redtick coonhound,
                  Augustus McRae (Gus), '01 Bluetick coonhound

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                  • #49
                    So THERE WAS FOOD! You just had to go to the tent? That makes more sense. Have you ever tasted the hamburger that guy makes? Its well worth the 8 dollars. It was made to sound like there was NOTHING!

                    When we were there two years ago, the xc was big, and if you rode forward, it rode well. I love courses like that. Proper.
                    May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
                    www.mmceventing.com

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I did have to laugh though about the stabling. Again. This time I had a stable to put my pony in and didn't have to call around to have the squatters removed.

                      Needless to say, our shavings had been stolen and we were told that happens a lot. They put them out on the Thursday and they are usually stolen by the time the LL riders arrive. After much negotiation, we were 'allowed' more shavings.

                      The soaked shavings were replaced ??? But only if you were in the know, right ? No announcement, no word got around, no replacements at our end.

                      I had to feel bad for the upper level team stabled opposite us. Apparently they'd not received the memo about doing stadium under lights late on Friday night. Yeah, yeah, I know, they should suck it up and be prepared for anything and it's within the regulation etc blah blah, but seriously, if you're going to do something THAT out of the ordinary, fercryingoutloud, put it in the email and tell everybody. Ridiculous.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Well stated Glenbaer. While I'm not an event rider, I enjoy playing a part by offering my time & encouragement. I saw this event as a gauntlet being thrown down: It's time to raise the bar and call event riders to rise to the occasion and reach higher.

                        It's always easy to complain or whine a bit, but the wise rider says "Ok, now I know what I have to work on, cuz that course isn't going to beat us next year!" and then go home and Git-R-Dun.

                        In my wee world of volunteer jump judge-dom, I have some suggestions as well and will speak directly to Charlotte, the CJ. There's always room for improvement!
                        <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I'm a bit puzzled here - as a UK person - don't you have 'black flag alternatives' in the US? They provide a slower but easier option at difficult fences. It makes the course cheaper to build and prevents rider and horse being over faced. Just a question to increase my knowledge.
                          "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Willesdon View Post
                            I'm a bit puzzled here - as a UK person - don't you have 'black flag alternatives' in the US? They provide a slower but easier option at difficult fences. It makes the course cheaper to build and prevents rider and horse being over faced. Just a question to increase my knowledge.
                            The rules provide for them, but it is up to the course designer whether to use them on any given course or for any fence.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Kate Wooten View Post
                              I had to feel bad for the upper level team stabled opposite us. Apparently they'd not received the memo about doing stadium under lights late on Friday night. Yeah, yeah, I know, they should suck it up and be prepared for anything and it's within the regulation etc blah blah, but seriously, if you're going to do something THAT out of the ordinary, fercryingoutloud, put it in the email and tell everybody. Ridiculous.
                              I cannot imagine that riders were not made aware at all of the Friday night show jumping. It was well advertized to the public. Any chance they were a one off?
                              I have Higher Standards... do you?
                              Apalachicola Native (Alfie), '02 TB Gelding,
                              Wild Man of Borneo (Hank), '03 Redtick coonhound,
                              Augustus McRae (Gus), '01 Bluetick coonhound

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Glenbaer has told me -- privately, however -- that there was, in fact, coffee available.

                                Now I feel better.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Glenbaer, you are absolutely right about rider responsibility -- if you are not comfortable with a course, DON'T RIDE IT. Yes, it is expensive, but your and your horse's wellbeing is up to you, so you cannot blame the course or the event if you felt overfaced by a course and rode it anyway. That and its consequences are 100% on you, whether or not you think it's fair.
                                  Life doesn't have perfect footing.

                                  Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
                                  We Are Flying Solo

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                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Kate Wooten View Post
                                    I did have to laugh though about the stabling. Again. This time I had a stable to put my pony in and didn't have to call around to have the squatters removed.

                                    Needless to say, our shavings had been stolen and we were told that happens a lot. They put them out on the Thursday and they are usually stolen by the time the LL riders arrive. After much negotiation, we were 'allowed' more shavings.

                                    The soaked shavings were replaced ??? But only if you were in the know, right ? No announcement, no word got around, no replacements at our end.

                                    I had to feel bad for the upper level team stabled opposite us. Apparently they'd not received the memo about doing stadium under lights late on Friday night. Yeah, yeah, I know, they should suck it up and be prepared for anything and it's within the regulation etc blah blah, but seriously, if you're going to do something THAT out of the ordinary, fercryingoutloud, put it in the email and tell everybody. Ridiculous.
                                    I went over in 2011 to help a friend in the CIC**. It is an absolutely gorgeous facility and it made me sad not to be riding!

                                    We were stabled in a far corner, in a stallion-designated barn, not a problem since my friend's horse is a gelding who was gelded late. On Saturday, however, a haul-in LL competitor apparently decided to get a stall after she'd run XC. It was hot that year, and she was over the tie-to-trailer scene. Her horse was, of course, a mare. And unbeknownst to the rider, she was walking right into a stall between us and a block of 3 stallions. In the rapid few moments it took for her, the groom in the stall next door (putting in studs, I'm pretty sure), the owner at the end of the barn, and the rider to simultaneously process what was happening, a volatile situation spontaneously combusted - not just from the horses, but from everyone shouting verbal warnings, commands, etc.

                                    Fortunately one of the riders (who made a lasting good impression) associated with the stallions sounded the horn for Zen and Peace, and magically the hackles went down, situation diffused. Because the stabling was sold out, however, someone from the office came up to clarify and understand what was needed.

                                    I will never forget - as this was someone I'd known from my time in Area V - how gobsmacked I was over her admonishment of the mare owner for not telling them that her horse was a mare. From my perspective, if you are designating a stallion barn, you should ask a potential boarder if their horse would be a suitable neighbor in that barn. A few days into a role of that magnitude, however, would probably have had me defensive too. And as someone who has competed a special needs mare, I probably would have made the disclaimer while securing the stall assignment.

                                    I tell this story because I also know that people who have shelled out $1000 before they have even unloaded their horses might feel entitled to additional $10 bags of shavings. "I've already spent $1000, I'm not spending $14 more on 2 bags of shavings! This place is swanky, they can afford it!" So they might be dishonest with the logistical staff and claim they had no shavings upon arrival. Shame on them.

                                    That same degree of entitlement, of course, is what leads to the early arrivers "harvesting" shavings from the plebians. Shame on them too. And if I catch you stealing my shavings, go ahead and get ready for a beat down. To quote Halle Berry in the movie "BAPS," "Stealing, huh? Then I guess I'm gonna have to beat you like you done stole something."

                                    Since horse needs and horse stall sizes haven't changed in the 7+ years it's been since I've evented, I feel validated in offering this advice:

                                    1.) 2 bags of shavings will never be enough. Take your own bags of shavings. Add 2 to whatever you deem acceptable. They are shavings, not heirlooms. Do right by your equine partner, and consider their value in the grand scheme of things.
                                    2.) Assume you will always have to convince a show office. Understand why they are dubious/skeptical. Accommodating 600+ horses and riders is a feat larger than most people can (or attempt to) comprehend. Insist that your fellow competitors uphold the standards of honesty and goodwill. Believe me, if they don't, more layers of bureaucracy will be added. Ain't nobody got time for that.

                                    But, seriously, in summary, DON'T STEAL SHAVINGS! It's tacky, dishonest, declasse, BASIC, and totally unnecessary.
                                    When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Robby Johnson View Post

                                      They are shavings, not heirlooms.
                                      I am printing this and putting it in my barn for myself. Thank you, Robby.
                                      We're spending our money on horses and bourbon. The rest we're just wasting.
                                      www.dleestudio.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        I personally loved the courses. Unfortunately, I didn't compete, but you really could see that the designers were raising the bar. After all, don't we hear every year announcers at Rolex saying how for a lot of riders and horses, it was their first time seeing crowds and atmosphere? Why not start conditioning them early, with smaller crowds and atmosphere?

                                        I thought the placement of the first jump was relatively close to the start box. Those that had instantly established pace, had a good jump. Those that didn't either needed to think why and correct it, or risk running into problems later.

                                        What I saw as far as the questions in the ring were those that swung wide and went close to the rail after jumping into the ring, and really had a good approach, had good jumps. I saw a few ride a really awkward approach, some even cross cantering the whole way, and almost all of them either had a run out or a fall.

                                        Maybe the breakdown in communication for jumping under the lights had to do with the two entirely separate websites. It wasn't until a day or two before that the link to the CHC site was on the regular Chatt Hills site (at least, if it was there earlier, it was hard to find). Yes, 'Under the Lights' was promoted heavily on the CHC site, but NOT the Chatt Hills one--- which was where the ride times were posted. Honestly, I had no idea there was even a CHC site until I happen to notice it on Eventing Nation one day. Even the omnibus link went to the Chatt Hills site.

                                        I think with some tweaking and working with a marketing person who also rides, all the surface problems can be fixed. They're definitely on the right track, and I hope they continue trying to make it a destination event.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          RE: the level of difficulty of the courses -

                                          I can 100% understand feeling like a course is inappropriate if it does not fit within the legal limits for the level, but I feel if you are moving up a level you should be ready for absolutely anything. Yes, its nice to find events that are on the softer side for your first few runs at the level but you can't blame the course desginer/show venue for your fall or refusal or time penalities, etc. if it is within limits. It is your responsibility to show up prepared. Then again, I can understand being slightly frustrated that there was no black flag options at some of the tougher things, there really is no reason for that I suppose. But IMHO, if you're going to move up a level, you need to be ready to jump ANYTHING that is allowed at the level.

                                          Comment

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