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Chatt Hills 3* today - half division didn't finish, anyone know why?

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  • #21
    Glad Bill and Carmac are ok - it is always so scary to hear about falls on course! Ashley Giles and her mare Stellaluna were the ones who went into the big ditch/wall at the 2* level (to clarify the post above who said it was the 1*). They too are ok today although I hear Stella has some scrapes and so forth.

    I was not there, but my mom was and she said the same thing about the vendors. This was actually an issue for her as she has fairly recently come off chemo with severe complications and set backs and really can't over do by walking so much etc. But this was the first year for the event so hopefully they will take the constructive criticism into account and fix for next year .
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!


    • #22
      Originally posted by JER View Post
      No coffee? No wonder half the field was eliminated.

      I'm surprised they even made it to the start box.

      I wouldn't even have gotten my boots on the right feet.
      Always be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Then always be Batman.

      The Grove at Five Points


      • #23
        My friend and I drove down from Atlanta on Friday to watch multiple friends ride.

        It was a mess of a weekend. Traffic was a pain, then there weren't really any signs, so we just kind of parked randomly in the grass. Fortunately we brought a picnic, because there weren't any food vendors (as was already mentioned)! The one friend we stayed late to watch (***) fell off in SJ, and then my car broke down at about 11 pm before we got to the highway, so we had to call the friend that had just fallen to come rescue us! Ended up paying 100$ for the tow truck, almost 600$ to get the car fixed, plus 80$ for a SCARY pet friendly Garden Inn in Union City.

        Needless to say, by the time the car was done at the shop at about noon on Saturday, we just went home. We didn't think it was well enough organized to go back and watch in the rain, and still in our clothes from the day before!

        Fortunately the other friends did well...
        Pisgah: 2000 AHHA (Holsteiner x TB) Mare (lower level eventing, with a focus on dressage)

        Darcy: 7? year old Border Collie x Rottweiler? Drama Queen extraordinaire, rescued from the pound in Jan 2010


        • #24
          Originally posted by GAEventer View Post
          I competed in the Intermediate this weekend, and there was carnage in all the upper level divisions. It was only our second Intermediate, and I felt that some of the questions were too much for the level. We shared every single fence with the 2* with no options, and the 2* was one of the tougher ones I've seen. Same went for the 3*/Adv and 1*/Prelim; the 'regular' levels were a bit overwhelmed with having to do an FEI/championship level course.

          They re-routed the course to the arenas up the hill, and put the most difficult questions IN the arena. Most horses aren't accustomed to that kind of atmosphere, much less having to focus on an extremely hard question, with tents, spectators, flags, change in terrain/footing, etc. I felt we were set up for failure in that particular area.

          I finished on a 91 in 9th place, adding a stop, a good deal of time, and one rail to our dressage score. Of 20 in my division, only 9 finished.
          If the FEI and National level courses are essentially the same, what is the point of having both? I saw this mentioned on another thread. I haven't competed at the upper levels in a long time but wouldn't the logical progression of difficulty be national, cic and then cci? Did the riders know that the courses were going to be the same? If they didn't I can see why there would be a lot of problems and I thinks it's unfair to the horses that are new to the level.

          I can't believe the lack of food available. It seems like they only thought about the upper level riders. Poor vendor setup is nothing new. I've seen this happen alot. It's as though the organizers forget that the vendors need to make money and I'm sure it was expensive for them to be there.


          • #25
            I was a volunteer judge at the Leyland Feeders (at the top of the big gallop-up hill) and the Fallen Tree (entry to the arena) for 3 star down to Advanced. I then moved to the 1/4 Round on a Mound (exit from the water feature) for Training.

            Despite the rain the night before/that morning, the footing wasn't horrible. It was quite a gallop up that hill and I only recorded 2 refusals for the 2 riders who just didn't sit back before and set their horse up for it. Had a very close call at 10 B (two star) and thought for sure I was about to see my first rotational fall. I think I sucked up all the oxygen on that side of the course when I gasped. Thank God the horse saved the rider's butt and galloped on down the hill.

            The combination 12 A/B in the arena was named appropriately: Cavalor Conundum. I lost count of the numbers of refusals & run outs for both A and B portion.

            With the numbers of riders held on course for Ashley Giles'/Stellaluna's and Bill Hoos'/Carmac's falls, we were running 45 minutes behind. Once Training ran, tho, we made up about 15 minutes of that and there weren't as many mishaps.

            While food wasn't an issue for me as a volunteer (they feed us breakfast/lunch and I bring my own supplemental supplies anyway), I can see where you guys are coming from for the competitors about lack of food. This is the first time they've done this type of event, so it's a learning process.

            I've passed this thread on to an inside contact so they can get this feedback and learn from it for next year.

            Despite the long and stressful day, I thoroughly enjoy my time out on course and really loved being posted on that hill. Was able to offer some smiles, some "Good rides!" and a couple bottles of water to the riders returning to the barn.

            Also glad that, despite the falls, no rider or horse was seriously injured. Believe me, I PRAYED over every rider as they came by me!!!!
            Last edited by ChocoMare; May. 22, 2013, 10:50 AM.
            <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.


            • #26
              Chatt Hills is nothing, if not elitist. JMHO

              Having qualified for the AEC's three years and attended two of those, I thought the venue lovely, but highly overpriced. When I saw that they were charging almost as much to enter/stable at one of the recognized events, I knew that I would never go back there.

              It is troubling to hear that there was only one food vendor and that they were "catering" to the folks who could afford the VIP tent. With events like this, the everyday man/woman eventer will become obsolete.

              I understand that they want to have the same kinds of crowds as Rolex. However, that property is not conducive to handling large crowds. It is sad that they are charging the public to watch, too.

              Thanks for the update on Bill Hoos. I am happy that he was not hurt more seriously.

              Do other venues, other than Rolex, charge for folks to come watch? (Flame suit on just in case. )
              When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!


              • #27
                Granting VIP access only to the CIC** and CIC*** competitors and not the CIC* competitors - if true - is the kind of thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth and would favor against returning to a venue. One of the hallmarks of eventing is the lack of elitism - but treating the one star competitors as poor relations even as they are happy to charge the same amount to enter undermines that principle. Poor form, if true. I really hope that this isn't what happened.


                • #28
                  Just another depressing note on the state of US eventing dressage from Chatt Hills. From the scores at Livescoring, very, very few riders had scores that would be internationally competitive in CICs.

                  In the 1* only Tatendrang had a dressage percentage over 69. His was actually over 70%.

                  In the 2*, only Julie Richards came close. She was 68.9+%.

                  In the 3*, PD and Ben were 69.6%, and PD and William Penn were over 70%. No one came anywhere close.

                  With the dressage coefficient, in the rest of the world you cannot make up for a less than stellar dressage score with perfect in the jumping phases and still have a chance to win. And what is considered a stellar dressage score keeps moving up year by year.
                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                  Thread killer Extraordinaire


                  • #29
                    Red Hills charges after but it is a "donation" and part of the fees go towards various charities etc.
                    Emerald Acres standing the ATA, Trakehner Verband, sBs, RPSI, and ISR/OLD NA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!


                    • #30

                      Sad to hear that a good idea was possibly not implemented nearly as well as it could be.

                      Those angled brushes on the one star course Actually, the angle itself wouldn't bother me, but the brush being trimmed so you had to jump SO accurately just seems too steep of a question for that level (and, am I understanding correctly? The prelim HT ran the same exact course?).

                      One star riders not having access to VIP while two and three star did? Not cool.

                      ONE food vendor? Also not cool. (Ugh. I remember being at Midsouth where there was ONE food vendor, with crappy hours....made for some long, hungry days!)

                      I actually don't mind an admission price. It SHOULD help defray some of the costs and maybe help keep entry fees down (doesn't like the case here).


                      • #31
                        Did anyone bring their concerns to the TD?
                        I think as a whole we as riders need to start to speak up a bit. Granted, the time I have spoken up or convinced friends to speak up we get the "put your panties on and deal with it".
                        So that makes it seem like a lost cause.

                        Ya those brushes are down right stupid for Prelim. Def something you would pick off one at a time since they were labeled A and B. I think the wise way to go would have had prelim do A only. And then have the A and B for the *.

                        sucks that such a great event is receiving less than stellar reviews.

                        Make sure you turn in your event evaluation forms!!!
                        Though I just went looking for "forms" on the useventing site and I can't find them. Haven't needed once since the change of site. Anyone care to post the link?
                        Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!


                        • #32
                          Can someone comment on the restroom situation? Do they still only have porta potties?

                          Some of us dressage weenies aren't too keen on attending next weekend's dressage show there if there are no restrooms with indoor plumbing, AND no food!


                          • Original Poster

                            Thanks all for the answers to the initial question. Love CoTH for that kind of info for those of us who can't see it ourselves, in person.

                            A formal or informal sort of 'course evaluation' or basic rating - soft, max, etc. - has been discussed in the past. Sounds like that would have been useful for the non-FEI UL competitors at this one.

                            But also, isn't the TD, GJ or someone official at the event supposed to evaluate courses and make modifications if necessary to comply with USEA requirements and intentions? To what degree is the course designer accountable? Were the non-FEI UL's really outside the parameters intrinsic to those levels in the USEA?


                            • #34
                              What about rider reps? Did anyone talk to them about the concerns with the courses (especially the no options for the national levels)? Did they go to the officials?


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post
                                A formal or informal sort of 'course evaluation' or basic rating - soft, max, etc. - has been discussed in the past. Sounds like that would have been useful for the non-FEI UL competitors at this one.

                                I've tried something like this using results data. The basic premise being if a course has more jumping penalties than the average for courses at that level it's likely to be harder and less jumping penalties easier. It came about because people didn't seem to like the subjectivity of individual reviews. On the other hand you don't get the inside detail on why problems occurred and if you don't have enough competitors in each division then the results are skewed by who turned - but it's a first stab at it at least!

                                http://outsidethehorsebox.com/event-reviews/ The ratings are a weighted average of how much easier or difficult the cross country and show jumping were than the average (jumping pens only; XC weighted 2x SJ). If anyone wanted to contribute comments on the events - if they thought things were easier, harder etc I'd be happy to work that in to make it a more robust rating.

                                But the problem in this particular case is that Chatt Hills May last year didn't have very many problems (18% of competitors had jumping penalties which the same as the average for Prelim Area III). So it's hard when the courses redesigned.

                                On the other point the TD is responsible for working with the course designed to make sure the questions are appropriate for the level.


                                • #36
                                  The event evaluation for Area 3 events is here - http://usea3.org/eventeval.html


                                  • #37
                                    I had an issue with the AEC's, which were held at Chatt Hills in 2011. I was angry enough that I filled out a USEA event evaluation form and one for Area3. I received no feedback from either of them.

                                    I guess that the concerns went in one ear and out the other, or maybe just a jump ball for the trash can?
                                    When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!


                                    • #38
                                      Definitely fill out event evaluations, organizers DO read them. Also, it sounds like many of the concerns about food, etc, would be great to send to the organizer. I don't go to ChattHills for the reasons listed above -- they've priced me out and I don't like the elitist vibe, but I also know that no matter what the event, a large group of people have worked hard to get it done. So send feedback to them.

                                      I agree that the brush jump is something that I would find unreasonable for prelim and also wonder if the rider rep was approached or the TD. I've worked several events where a rider did so and a jump was moved or adjusted to a more appropriate level. I don't know who the officials were for this event, but everyone I have worked with takes their job very seriously and really likes hearing from competitors.
                                      Life doesn't have perfect footing.

                                      Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
                                      We Are Flying Solo


                                      • #39
                                        Wait, are you saying that Chatt didn't have any food vendors? REALLY? WOW. Okay, so we have a tent for just the 2 and 3 star riders...correct me here if I am wrong....but nothing for the one star riders, and the HT riders? Where did everyone eat? It's half hour to anything out there.....

                                        Chocomare, don't take this wrong, but that isn't a learning curve, that is just plain nuts. You can't have a venue, expect spectators, and have nothing for them to eat or drink the entire day....or ask competitors to pay big dollars for entry/stabling, but they have no food? I mean, wow.

                                        We use to pull this ugly yellow trailer, I mean guys, U.G.L.Y. It was 45 years old....seriously. We went there two years ago, for this same show, and we were told we couldn't park where we did, they wanted us in a corner, over yonder, our thougts were where no one would see it. We upped the tent, and rehooked up, and moved, My daughter not so happy. They told us they weren't parking people there. 3 hours later, there sits an RV, a NICE RV, with the whole works, in our exact spot...It was embaressing to drive in with that trailer, after that incident, it was excruitiating.

                                        I wonder if the specators who did come were to fill out an eval, what they would have to say. It sounded like it was going to be so special. Guess not. I wonder if it did anything to make our sport more appealing? Genuine question, of if they came away with a bad taste in thier mouth....from a lack of food/drink? LOL.
                                        May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by GotSpots View Post
                                          Granting VIP access only to the CIC** and CIC*** competitors and not the CIC* competitors - if true - is the kind of thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth and would favor against returning to a venue. One of the hallmarks of eventing is the lack of elitism - but treating the one star competitors as poor relations even as they are happy to charge the same amount to enter undermines that principle. Poor form, if true. I really hope that this isn't what happened.

                                          'Tis totally true. It did feel very elitist, and I was competing as an upper level rider. Definitely catered to the ** and *** riders....
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