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Speaking of running a horse at two UL competitions back to back...

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  • #41
    Here ya' go: (from the FEI Rulebook)

    524.2.3 Option for Horse Inspection at Short Competitions (CIC)
    At a short Competition the First Horse Inspection is optional, however if one is to be held the details must be published in the schedule of the Competition. In the Event that there is no First Horse Inspection, an FEI Official Veterinarian must assess the Horse’s fitness to compete within the Examination on Arrival pursuant to 524.1 of these Eventing rules. Horses deemed by the FEI Official Veterinarian to be unfit to compete must be reported to the Ground Jury.

    NOTE: For 2013 the Second Horse Inspection will be compulsory if the Jumping Test is the last test.

    Strongly recommended for this year and mandatory starting in 2014, order will be dressage, sj, xc for the "short format" or CIC.

    Hey, they are starting to muck around with driving too.



    • Original Poster

      In all honesty, I really wanted to throw Veronica's entourage under the bus in my first post, but I thought I should hold back.

      Still, is this what the future holds for our sport?! Running horses into the ground b/c of these ridiculous qualification requirements. It's only a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt or killed b/c their horse broke down on course from having been overworked/overcompeted.
      Road to the T3D
      fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
      skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk


      • #43
        Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
        Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the CIC is the only FEI sponsored competition that does not have a formal jog before competition. One wonders why. One also wonders why the FEI is making so many changes in eventing. It's their only sport that is continually being tinkered with.
        Just a stab in the dark, but my guess is that they are "tinkering" with eventing for PR/safety reasons. There are few lethal (in competition) incidents for horse or rider in FEI dressage or showjumping, and the pressure is on to reduce the risk of fatalities in eventing.

        The widespread criticism regarding inexperienced riders buying advanced horses is probably a factor, and understandably so.

        Whether the FEI remedy is going about it in the best manner, remains to be seen.


        • #44
          Originally posted by SLR View Post
          That leaves Richland and Poplar. Gee what if you screw up?
          Getting the FEI qualifications is not an easy task, and does have to be planned out far in advance.
          So my question is at what point does the "gee what if I screw up at a qualifier" outweigh the "gee, too bad my horse was spun at the first/second jog at the fall CCI"

          Id rather be devastated that I didnt get my qualifications in time, rather than get all the way to a fall CCI and be spun. But I guess thats just my opinion


          • #45
            Count me in the "this sucks" group. I have ridden for over 30 years, owned competition horses for 25+, and I would never do this to one of my own, nor would I allow it to be done to one of my horses.

            This whole situation - the FEI rules, the entourage, the complacency- makes my stomach turn.
            Unrepentant carb eater


            • #46
              Originally posted by pegasusmom View Post
              Strongly recommended for this year and mandatory starting in 2014, order will be dressage, sj, xc for the "short format" or CIC.
              Really? Gah, that defeats the whole purpose of the test. At a lower level horse trial, it doesn't bother me, but at what are supposed to be the top levels, i.e. where it's supposed to really HAVE a point to the test? Then you are just doing a combined test and there is almost no incentive to slow your horse or run more carefully or be super fit because you can just crash and go home after XC. Reason number 4,725 I won't give FEI a tin nickel.

              On the other hand, maybe this will allow the branch off of the sport I have always wanted -- a cross country course with none of that arena nonsense...
              Life doesn't have perfect footing.

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              • #47
                Interesting thought, and very possibly the reason. So, the jog before is to benefit the safety of the rider. Of course it wouldn't be a popular thing to do, and probably very difficult to manage, but wouldn't it be interesting to take a page from the hunters who have to jog for soundness before placings? Have a jog post x-c?

                Of course, then there's the issue of 'soft' unsoundness (my term... not medical, by any stretch of the imagination!): a horse that has sprung/ lost a shoe; one who banged his knee on the last jump, etc.

                Something to help the horses, not just the riders.

                Originally posted by skydy View Post
                Just a stab in the dark, but my guess is that they are "tinkering" with eventing for PR/safety reasons. There are few lethal (in competition) incidents for horse or rider in FEI dressage or showjumping, and the pressure is on to reduce the risk of fatalities in eventing.

                The widespread criticism regarding inexperienced riders buying advanced horses is probably a factor, and understandably so.

                Whether the FEI remedy is going about it in the best manner, remains to be seen.


                • #48
                  Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Sad for the sport, if it's come to this.
                  "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

                  Spay and neuter. Please.


                  • #49
                    I saw a lot of horses who ran at the Ocala CCI on the list for the CIC at Chat Hills and I too am surprised. We ran ours twice last fall: N3D, training, and then 4 prelims this spring before the CCI. Ours are just finishing a month off of r and r. I thought it was pretty standard to give time off after a CCI no matter if 1, 2, 3 star. Am I wrong?
                    Beth Davidson
                    Black Dog Farm Connemaras & Sport Horses
                    visit my blog: http://ponyeventer.blogspot.com


                    • #50
                      the vets at the FEI level take those things into account for the jog the next day. When horses come off cross country they are pretty serious about looking for scrapes, bumps, lost shoes, etc that may impact the horse's soundness but not be truly serious in order to fairly evaluate them the next day. Each horse has his own sheet/record on which those things are noted.


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by SLR View Post
                        If she wants to do Rolex next year, she has to get the qualifications done and is at the mercy of the calendar.
                        This is a mare that was E'd in her only attempt at CCI**** at Rolex 2012. She also has letter results for the Fork CIC*** 2012 and also for Plantation the previous year. That was with KOC.

                        Why should Rolex -- or any CCI**** qualification -- be the current goal with this mare? Why not get consistent and good at CCI***? Why not aim for a respectable result at a top-notch international CCI***?


                        • #52
                          According to the EN write up, the mare is going to the CCI*** Bromont in 3 weeks. I think the "business" of the short format is horrible for riders and horses. The travel, stress, and wear and tear - it's all become a bit like carnies.
                          If you believe everything you read, better not read. -- Japanese Proverb


                          • #53
                            Blah. What sad treatment of a lovely horse. very disappointed in team O'Connor.


                            • #54
                              Back to Back events

                              Sad reality, however supporters and owners will still line up to offer horses to those who make these kinds of decisions. All the while overlooking very talented riders who truly do put the welfare of their horses at the forefront


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Judysmom View Post

                                This whole situation - the FEI rules, the entourage, the complacency- makes my stomach turn.
                                This, times 10. I definitely see this as being a huge problem in the future, and giving "those crazy eventers" an even worse rap.
                                runnjump86 Instagram

                                Horse Junkies United guest blogger


                                • #56
                                  Am I the only one who suspects that the trainers/riders/vets may know more than we know about the horses they are running? In the case of Veronica, the goal is probably Rolex so they are not going to compromise the soundness of the horse.

                                  I'm not promoting running back to back upper level events. But I am thinking that this team may know what they are doing.....



                                  • #57
                                    It's always easy to be an armchair quarterback, but the sad truth is this is big business for a rarified few.

                                    pcwertb - this is our horse's schedule for the spring to get him back to Fair Hill this fall with a new rider: Prelim in January, 2 intermediates in February and one in March (which can be substituted this year for a CIC**). He'll go to the Virginia International CCI* next week and have a month off afterwards. Then we will pick one or two preps late summer early fall and if all has gone well, back to Fair Hill for the CCI**.

                                    Just because "everyone else" is doing it doesn't mean we all should and I am extremely thankful the young man who has our horse has the sense to realize what is the right thing to do for the long run. (and if he didn't, the owner does!)



                                    • #58
                                      I am eagerly looking forward to cheering him, rider, and owner on this year!
                                      Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                                      Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)


                                      • #59
                                        The fact of the matter is, as GS eluded to, the FEI royally screwed a lot of riders by doing a wholesale change of qualifications without ANY notice (the qualification changes were announced I believe in NOVEMBER to go into effect two months later). I know many riders and owners who felt like they were hit by a Mack truck suddenly because their plans for their horses suddenly weren't going to happen.

                                        Not that that makes any valid excuse for bad horsemanship. I know a lot of people who have shrugged their shoulders and are just taking the appropriate time to get the qualifications they need. And, really, bad horsemanship is rampant, at any level.


                                        • #60
                                          It's still really sad, though, and just seems like every month, another little thing sort of happens to change eventing and make it more and more commercial, more European model, more stressful, more weird, less fun, less challenging, less different from hunter/jumper land.
                                          Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
                                          Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)