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CANTER prospect?

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  • CANTER prospect?

    I have no clue how to post this, so if anyone can help me?

    There is a new guy on CANTER, KY. His name is Artie. His JC name is Fly on the Wall.

    It seems like he has a nice pedigree for sport.

    What do you think?

    I am having him vetted tomorrow, unless you see something glaringly wrong.
    When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!

  • #2
    Here's his listing:


    Equibase - race record




    Fingers crossed for smooth vetting. Best wishes
    Last edited by Justa Bob; May. 13, 2013, 08:54 PM. Reason: Fixed link


    • #3
      Nice looking guy, and I love Artie Schiller!
      "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George


      • Original Poster

        Justa Bob,

        Thank you for posting for me!

        Toadie's Mom,
        I am keeping my fingers crossed, too.

        I did go up to Ohio to see him. He has a nice attitude. He is slightly butt high. He has a nice walk and trot. He may be a bit base narrow behind, which is why I want to get some photos of his hocks tomorrow. He is about 16 hands and has one of the best set of hooves that I have seen on an OTTB. He is currently barefoot in front, too.

        He has been turned out for almost a month, with a herd of mares. The owner/trainer is a very nice fellow. He said that he already had four calls on Artie. I was the first to actually come out there.

        I had not heard of his sire, until I looked him up on pedigreequery. He won over 2 million dollars. I have no clue why Artie was only raced twice, but he did win one of them.
        When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!


        • #5
          His race record does not come up?

          He looks OK but nobody keeps a race horse around in a race barn that is not racing until they are halfway thru their 5year old year with only 3 lifetime starts.

          He's been turned out from what training for a month? And you believe the owner has 4 other potential buyer calls on him so you better hurry?

          Maybe it's legit but you need to be very, very careful here.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


          • #6
            Well he looks alot like the 5yr old I bought yesterday who was priced hgher w/ more races and just as cute w/ awesome feet. Not same pedigree..Best of luck to you....!!!!


            • #7
              Sorry - fixed link so Equibase race record comes up (ran two races and was just in training)


              • Original Poster


                I appreciate your words of caution. COTH'ers are always the voice of reason. I will be making certain that he passes the Vet check, before making payment.

                Does any one have any more thoughts on his pedigree for Sport?
                When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!


                • #9
                  Pedigree doesn't have any red flags and has quite a lot of very good lines. In fact, it's quite nice with one of my favorite mare lines through Majestic Light. Rahy is Blushing Groom, which gets you a touch of Wild Risk, along with Glorious Song/Ballade; and you've got Nasrullah three times, top and bottom. No reason he shouldn't have the jump.
                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                  Thread killer Extraordinaire


                  • #10
                    He's very cute and I *love* his face. Good luck!!


                    • #11
                      Auburn, I have a good friend that may know the horse/trainer

                      And my equine vet may know the trainer as well.

                      As a former race track rat and someone who's had many, many OTTBs, it seems like a lot of money and if he's bred that well, there is a reason, and not a good one, that he only had a couple of starts.

                      For $2500, he should have already been "let down" and started his new second career.

                      Who's doing the vet check?


                      • #12
                        He won in 2011 and was out from 2012 to now...just recently posting breezes (April 15th was last one).

                        Missing that much time can be a red flag that there is soundness or other issue. And going back into training -- being too slow maybe? However, sometimes great horses "fall through the cracks" due to no fault of their own (owner passes away, divorce, bankruptcy, etc).

                        See if you can talk to the owner/trainer to get the back story. You might also pass on the racing history - esp. if using a track vet.

                        He is lovely - fingers crossed that he vets well. Good luck!


                        • #13
                          I was thinking his race record sounded fishy but looking on equibase, his win was such that it might well be meaningless. Six of the 12 failed to complete that race because of a massive pileup. Read the specifics at the end: http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbP...try=USA&race=5

                          So his win might have been a fluke and not an indicator of talent. . He is cute, love the face.


                          • Original Poster

                            I have to admit that I am ignorant about race stats, so do appreciate all of your help.

                            When reading the information, I noticed that the person who is selling him is not the person listed as the trainer or owner on Equiline. Is there something fishy about that, too? Wouldn't the JC information have to be listed in the new owner/trainer's name?

                            The one race in which he ran, truly was a mess. I did notice that his claiming price for that race was $25,000. It is a mystery what happened to him between then and now. At least, I will know some of the correct questions to ask.

                            I am still hoping that he Vets sound.
                            When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!


                            • #15
                              Horses change owners all the time. 2ndyrgal may know them. Pm her? I would want to know why the horse did not race in 2012. Soundness or temperament are the worries.


                              • Original Poster

                                Senario: Horse belongs to a "racing family" in Lexington, KY. They are breeding for the top 1% and usually run horses in The Breeders Cup (Calvin Borel rode for them, too). Said horse is not part of the 1%, so gets turned out, with others that do not "make it", on the huge acres of property and falls through the cracks. Trainer goes and picks him out of the bunch of horses that are turned out and begins to bring him back slowly into work. Track closes for the season, so horse does not run in a race. It could happen, right?
                                When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!


                                • #17
                                  Only if he's willing to give names and it checks out ....

                                  This is not 'the racing family's' trainer - someone else, I infer.

                                  If important family can't be bothered at the least get the farm manager's phone number.


                                  • #18
                                    So the horse's last and winning race is Feb 2011. They show the last breezes April 2013. Why did he stand in the field for a year? Because he wasn't part of the 1%? Maybe. If he lives in the rarefied air of a solid racing family, they may have the resources to forget about a few horses in the field. Or that story doesn't sit well (why not sell him last year?, etc).

                                    Are you using a vet that has racing connections? See what they think? Check with the local Canter folks? I certainly don't want to raise doubts where there are none. But you also want a horse with soundness and good temperament! Have you been able to see the horse? Your gut may help you decide.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Justa Bob View Post
                                      Why did he stand in the field for a year? Because he wasn't part of the 1%? Maybe. If he lives in the rarefied air of a solid racing family, they may have the resources to forget about a few horses in the field.
                                      If he's still owned by the Ramseys, then yes they do have the resources. If they sold him privately after his last race, then I'd be suspicious of his soundness.
                                      "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George


                                      • #20
                                        eh. Racing is racing. It raises red flags but that is what a PPE is for. 2500 is NOT a lot of a horse. If you find something suspicious in the vetting, you walk away or offer less.

                                        At the end of the day, I've had horses hurt on the track who held up just fine in a sport career....and others who got hurt in a field. Do not get too worked up over why he failed as a race horse if you are vetting him.

                                        And yes, I bought one mare with 4 starts who won two of them at mid level allowance races--lost her last race at a much higher level of race. From her race records...she should have been still running rather than sitting in a field for two years. But her owners were her breeders and were in the middle of a divorce. Once the divorce settled, they sold her (to me). So sometimes the gaps are gaps that are not any issue. In the end, I didn't care and vetted the horse and bought her for what she was that day....and paid more than 2500....and have not regretted it. Once I started jumping her...her "price" was worth 10x that.
                                        ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **