• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Event Announcements now available FREE to all registered users

We just reconfigured the Event Announcements forum to be available as a free service for all registered forum users. See the thread stuck at the top of that forum for more information.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What's the big deal...?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What's the big deal...?

    I've been stuck at beginner novice horse trials for three years now. I don't have a horse of my own, but I have been leasing a novice packer for almost a year now, with the goal of doing novice, maybe training. Her owner is at college, and she is half leased by me and a part time lesson horse.

    Anyways, I recently competed at a novice combined test. We had our best dressage test together with at 31, tied for first, but our collective marks bumped us down to second. Our stadium was fun - no rails and no time penalties - but it was speedy. My coach says out of control, while I didn't feel out of control at all. Yes, it was fast, but my coach is making us do another beginner novice horse trial "to prove that I can control her." With this pony, we wouldn't make it through a dressage test if I couldn't control her. She is infamous for cantering, or attempting to canter, the entire test.

    Overall, I'm frustrated and bored of beginner novice. We ARE ready for novice. At our last event, we got third place and one rail in stadium. My showing funds are limited, and I don't want to waste them being bored. Any advice? Thanks.

  • #2
    If your coach says your round looked to be out of control, either (a) believe her and trust she has your best interest at stake, or (b) find another coach who either will confirm what the first one is saying or tell you what you want to hear. Either way, this is a conversation best held between you and your coach, and not in the abstract. As a general matter, however, a good, safe BN round should look an awful lot like a hunter round, and generally not "speedy".

    Or you can post a video of your ride for comment...

    Comment


    • #3
      I can see this from both perspectives. I've seen riders zooming around the ring, getting bad distances, unbalanced through their turns, and generally giving everyone watching a heart attack. If your coach is telling you to go slower and you're not, then she can assume that a) you don't have control of your horse or b) you can't concentrate in the ring and forget instructions or c) are blatantly ignoring her. All VERY good reasons to not let a student move up! Remember that results on paper do NOT equal being ready to move up. Keep in mind if she is coach you, your move-up reflects her. She gets a say if you want her help.

      I can also see this from your side. If you feel your coach is holding you back, sit down with her and get a list of "you can move up when you can do X,Y, and Z." Explain your funds are limited and you want to accomplish your goals as efficiently as possible. There are other options to see if you're ready - for example, have her take you off property to school stadium as if it's a show. Rent the arena, have a course set up, and enter the ring for a round without schooling in it first. It's likely cheaper than paying for a show and a good test for horse and rider. If you still can't come to an agreement, work with another coach and see what they say.

      Comment


      • #4
        Get a new coach.

        Or sit down and have a frank discussion about what you want from the one you have now.
        Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Gotspots, I really wish I had it videotaped, but of course, my camera died. :/

          I completely agree with what you are all saying. I see her point of view, especially for safety reasons. She asked me if I speed up because I am nervous, which I don't, I just like to go fast. I know, I know...speed is not your friend.

          And I so badly want to get a new perspective, go to a clinic or trailer down to ride with someone else, for supplemental purposes. Not to replace my current coach! The opportunity has presented itself, but I'm too intimidated to ask her. She can be rather intimdating. If I had my own horse, it would be a different story.

          Another aspect is that there aren't many riders ready to event right now at the barn. It's not really worth her while to just take one person, but I don't think she will let me get a ride with the assistant trainer to shows. This means show season is even more limited.

          Comment


          • #6
            The big deal is safety and the fact that the coach is likely responsible for the well being of this horse (e.g. I am guessing you are leasing the horse because of her relationship with the owner who is away at school, as much or more than your relationship with the owner - I could be wrong). It is also possible that the trainer knows this horse better than you do. Listen to your coach.

            I agree with GotSpots on what BN should look like. Having ridden an ex Advanced horse at the lower levels, I know what a challenge it can be. Ask Trainer what would demonstrate control. For me, it was a major achievement to bring horse back to a trot at specific places on XC (like a water crossing or between fences on the way "home"). You may never get that hunter round, but your coach may be satisfied with other demonstrations of control.

            Safety of BOTH horse and rider are likely outweighing your desire to move up. From your blog posted in your signature line, you sound young. Your coach sounds like she wants you to be safe and master the basics, before moving up. It's easy for a trainer to let you move up. It is rare that a reasonably qualified coach would hold you back for no reason.

            Good luck!

            Comment


            • #7
              Can you not set up a course at Novice level for the stadium and get your coach to watch? It would probably be a good exercise as you will be able to see what is needed and your coach can help you and help you make a decision?
              The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.

              Comment


              • #8
                It's your horse and your money. Enter the level you feel ready for and that you want to enter! You can always go slower, trot some of the course, or even retire if necessary.

                I'm all for riding at an appropriate level and am the queen of moving up and down again repeatedly depending on many factors. But in the end, the decision is MINE as to what level to enter. If I'm on the fence my trainer's advice can be helpful, but generally we are on the same page and if I'm feeling iffy about deciding she usually mirrors that and asks me what I want to do.

                I know she'd speak up if she thought I was being irrational about my choice of level, and I'd listen. But if I had the feeling that her idea of my readiness and mine were worlds apart, I'd suspect a major communication problem.
                Click here before you buy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  But Delta, it is not the rider's horse. In the OP it says she is half leasing a horse also used for lessons, while owner is at school. Those types of arrangements are almost always due to the trust the owner places in the trainer, to do right by the horse.

                  This rider also appears to be a junior rider -- not sure how old the blog is, but it says she is 16 years old.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Mugsgame, we set up courses every lesson. Our lessons go smooth, but I think it is just proving ourselves at a show.

                    Deltawave, it just lease her. Trust me, if she was mine, we wouldn't have this problem! Lol.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That does complicate matters--sorry I missed that. Still, to me the difference between BN and N is the smallest of all the gaps between divisions, and an attempt at Novice for a competent team is usually not a big deal in stadium.
                      Click here before you buy.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Sevendogs, I see we posted at the same time. Originally, I was going to full lease her from the owner personally, but some things came up where I could only do a half lease. My trainer was also looking for a new school horse at the time, so that's how it worked out. It's complicated.

                        I agree, Deltawave. Beginner novice to novice courses are very similar. It isn't the stadium she is worried about, it is the cross country. I ride cross country much more conservatively, for many reasons.
                        Last edited by Nike; May. 12, 2013, 06:24 PM. Reason: Needed to add more information without another post.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Does your lease allow you to train with other instructors? Perhaps your current instructor does not feel comfortable in her own knowledge to teach above the BN level. Have you checked her credentials? or experience?

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            I've been riding with her for almost three years. She has competed to preliminary, I think, but not in the recent five years. She is training fourth level dressage. As Long as I have been there, she has had one student go to training level. The horse and rider weren't a good match, moved up to training after one event at novice, and it was scary.

                            One of the barn rules is no outside trainers, so that won't happen any time soon.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would ask her if you could try riding a novice course somewhere other than your home barn, at the pace she feels appropriate. That might be the simplest and cheapest option. I totally understand having limited funds and I don't think its quite fair to expect you to pay for a 3-phase at BN just for her to feel like she's comfortable. Honestly, I feel a trainer should be able to fix these issues, whatever she is most concerned about, at home in a few lessons. But if she's really concerned it might be easiest just to have a "practice round" somewhere and ride it how she wants it ridden.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                One way to look at this is to ask yourself why you believe you are ready to move up (and being"bored" at a level is not justification for moving up). Ribbons and placings are also not necessarily a good indicator.

                                What are the quality of your fences like? Are the vast majority of your fences " good"? Are you getting to the base (not leaving out strides or launching?) How are your landings? Are you able to land in control and canter away in balance? Are you able to adjust stride lengths and speed readily before and after fences? Do you have effective half halts? And the best one of all: is anyone gasping or clutching their chest when you are on course? Just some thoughts and gauges.

                                One other thought is you might be able to ask another trainer or even an official at a show for feedback. It's a little tricky but not impossible. I would phrase it as feedback as opposed to asking for a recommendation on moving up. You might ask whomever is judging stadium, but you would need to do it relatively quickly after your round, which could be hard if you are towards the beginning of the class.
                                Last edited by SevenDogs; May. 12, 2013, 07:38 PM.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Did no one else pick up that OP would like to get experience from clinics and/or hauling to other trainers and IS AFRAID even to ask this trainer for an okay to do that?

                                  That would be one place to start--find a clinic that has a BN/N section and put it to trainer that this would a be a way to get a second person's opinion on how competent you are with this horse.

                                  If finances are a limiting problem in what you do with your riding, your parents, if they are involved at all in financing this addiction, should also sit down with the trainer and talk money.
                                  "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                  Thread killer Extraordinaire

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Well, it's been a goal of mine for quite some time now. I believe I am ready because our dressage is now fairly consistent. Generally, I am seeing my distances and rarely knocking down rails in practice or shows. We have been schooling novice with some training level mixed in. We are both fit enough for the level. The pony and I have very good communication, and with her previous experience, I think it'll make for a smooth warmup.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I think being bored IS a good justification for moving up from BN to Novice, coupled with the fact that your dressage scores are competitive (which they are). After all, dressage in theory is supposed to be a test of discipline, submission and "readiness" to go on to the jumping phases. And while SevenDogs, i TOTALLY would agree with you that "bored" alone, is not justification let's say, moving up from Training to Prelim, I think the matter of 3 inches in show jumping height is no problem to move up if you're bored.

                                      You could argue that there is WATER! and BANKS! and DITCHES! but if you truely are bored, than you should be able to navigate those issues as a challenge to you..no problem. They're not big questions (in height and difficulty) from BN to Novice.

                                      I also will add, that some trainers may give great advice and be totally competant, but the longer they keep you at the BN levels, the more you tend to lean on them for advice. I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but I see it all the time.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        It has been proven at the highest levels that dressage scores do not positively equate to safety on XC. Dressage skills are a part of jumping, but good dressage scores don't mean a heck of a lot. Ask Colleen Rutledge.

                                        Also having the goal of moving up is not a reason. Your blog states a goal of riding at the highest levels - that doesn't make you ready to do so. Goals and ambition are important, but aren't good indicators of a reason to move up at any level. Solid skills, combined with desire and ambition, are a good reason.

                                        I would also want to be jumping stadium fences, at whatever height I aspire to show, without knocking rails (with the very occasional exception). Remember, those XC fences don't come down. Dropped rails really indicate a lack of readiness to me.

                                        Look, I don't know you or your coach, and neither does anyone else in this thread, but really ask yourself what skills you are demonstrating that indicate you should move up at any level. You could also take a lesson from another event trainer in the area, who has school horses available, for another opinion.
                                        Last edited by SevenDogs; May. 12, 2013, 08:03 PM.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X