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  • #21
    Re ulcers : Unless I missed it, I didn't read anything about how much hay the horse is getting. ...I have had very good luck getting these difficult keepers/ulcer horses to turn around by literally feeding them more Good Quality hay than they will actually consume. The horse is only getting enough hay in the diet if he is actually leaving some leftovers. This more closely approximates grazing when they are inside , or kept in low grass pastures. If he is cleaning up his hay, then he needs more! I do also test with 10 days of ulcergard, but the volume of hay is critical , do not allow the gut to go empty, ever( including before riding, he should have had free choice hay right up until you start grooming) . Good Luck!

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    • #22
      Did your vet suggest any rehab exercises or stretches to do to help loosen his back, strengthen his pelvis, and help him build up good strength? If not I'd look into some of those things both on the ground and under saddle. Massage may also be a great adjunct therapy if he seems painful. Not all pain is bone related and chiro really only helps if things are subluxated. Muscle soreness may go away if it's due to the subluxations but could just be muscle soreness from disuse, misuse, or something like EPSM, RER. When she said that he had the back of an "18 yr old" was that for dorso-ventral excursion, ventral lateral bending, or did she feel there were bony changes associated with his back?

      I just recently bought the book: "Where does my horse hurt?: A hands on guide to evaluating pain and dysfunction using chiropractic methods" by Renee Tucker, DVM. This may help you to understand more what's going on when she adjusts him and what you should be looking for so you can know when to call her for an adjustment.

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      • #23
        To play the devil's advocate: if you can afford chiro sessions, a saddle-fitter, omeprazole, supplements, massage, and acupuncture - then I suspect you can afford a work-up if you suspect your horse has a medical problem. I would choose the work-up over a slew of non-specific therapies that haven't yielded improvement so far. Has he had basic bloodwork? I had a patient and client with an almost identical history recently - horse turned out to have a low-grade liver infection that resolved with a course of antibiotics. Not suggesting this is your horse's problem - just an example of how neglecting basic diagnostics can be penny-wise and pound-poor. That owner spent over $1500 on irrelevant supplements and treatments before she finally spent $250 diagnosing and curing the actual problem.
        Last edited by visorvet; May. 7, 2013, 09:26 PM.

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          To reiterate, the horse is on 24/7 turnout with ample pasture right now. If you tossed him a flake of the nicest, alfalfa he might nibble at if you hit him with it, otherwise it will be wasted. His nose is down all day chowing down on fresh, green grass.

          I have a call into my vet to discuss Lyme and possibly running a blood panel, as well as changing feeds. I talked with a good friend of mine who has been through 4 episodes of Lyme in 3 different horses, nothing screams infection to me with my horse, but it is a tricky disease.

          I researched (some at 2am) Nrf2, NSC, feed and ulcer related medical articles through PubMed and KER. The "magical herbal supplement" I was given yesterday has been used in numerous studies with promising results of reducing oxidative stress. It's a Nrf2 activator(not inhibitor as I stated in my first post), btw if anyone is keeping track, called Protandim.

          I don't think my horse would be the only one in the barn to benefit from a switch to a better, lower NSC feed (I'm leaning towards Pennfield Fibergized or TC Senior). I'm going to try to have a civil discussion about me buying my own feed or trying to convince the BO that this could help more than one horse (at least 5: one chubby who almost foundered once, one who just returned from colic surgery, one who tied up at the track and is very tense, another tubby who needs to have a careful eye on pasture and mine). We shall see. I think at times I become "that boarder" putting my horse on supplements no one else uses(flax), but I do research the snot out of most things both anecdotal (here on COTH) and with scientific literature.

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          • #25
            It sounds like you are on the right track, Helio. The steps you are taking all make sense. You might be "that boarder" but no one else has your horse, either. And, as you say, there might be other horses who would benefit from a better nutritional program at your barn.

            Speaking of KER, they no longer have a relationship with Pennfields, but they are making their own low-starch feed for performance horses (Re-Leve). If your feed store truly can get anything, perhaps they could get that for you? If not, then I personally would do Triple Crown. I don't think the Pennfields quality is the same anymore.

            Let us know how it goes-- good luck.
            SportHorseRiders.com
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            • #26
              Originally posted by Heliodoro View Post
              To reiterate, the horse is on 24/7 turnout with ample pasture right now. If you tossed him a flake of the nicest, alfalfa he might nibble at if you hit him with it, otherwise it will be wasted. His nose is down all day chowing down on fresh, green grass.

              I have a call into my vet to discuss Lyme and possibly running a blood panel, as well as changing feeds. I talked with a good friend of mine who has been through 4 episodes of Lyme in 3 different horses, nothing screams infection to me with my horse, but it is a tricky disease.

              I researched (some at 2am) Nrf2, NSC, feed and ulcer related medical articles through PubMed and KER. The "magical herbal supplement" I was given yesterday has been used in numerous studies with promising results of reducing oxidative stress. It's a Nrf2 activator(not inhibitor as I stated in my first post), btw if anyone is keeping track, called Protandim.

              I don't think my horse would be the only one in the barn to benefit from a switch to a better, lower NSC feed (I'm leaning towards Pennfield Fibergized or TC Senior). I'm going to try to have a civil discussion about me buying my own feed or trying to convince the BO that this could help more than one horse (at least 5: one chubby who almost foundered once, one who just returned from colic surgery, one who tied up at the track and is very tense, another tubby who needs to have a careful eye on pasture and mine). We shall see. I think at times I become "that boarder" putting my horse on supplements no one else uses(flax), but I do research the snot out of most things both anecdotal (here on COTH) and with scientific literature.
              If I had not at times in my life been "that boarder," my horse would most likely be dead right now, and if he was not dead, he would absolutely be lame.

              Sometimes, you just need to man up and make the right things happen. Most people won't care much if you take care of getting things done yourself. It is when you start impacting them that people start to care.

              I really, really, really would look into EPSM.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Judysmom View Post
                Sorry your going through this Helio.

                IME, most ex-race horses have pelvic issues from the gate. It takes a while of chiro + lateral work + judicious use of robaxin and/or NSAID + maybe SI injections to get them right. They come around, but it takes time.

                I feed my 4 yr old TB (still growing!!) free choice 2nd cut hay, beet pulp, hay stretcher and alfalfa pellets. I also did a round of pop rocks on him.

                Some times you have to play around with the food. I had one we just couldn't get in good weight, eventually found out he had food allergies.

                Good luck, hang in there, and take some zen breaths!!!!
                I had good luck with Robaxin helping relax my horse that sounds pretty similar when I got him. He could just never relax and his back was constantly twitchy. I think I gave it to him with a little grain before I started grooming- say 1/2 hour before lunging for 15 minutes before riding. (It was 8 or 9 years ago.) I also did hot towel massages with panalog and DMSO. That, lunging him before riding every day to relax him a little and treating ulcers. I would consider for feed adding some alfalfa - it's very high in calcium which should help with gut PH if it's too high- or at least that's what some studies I read said and it work well for me after going through gastroguard to keep my horse happy.

                It was a good 6 month - a year process to get him to where riding him was not stressful to him. Even then if I went on vacation or took a few days off we had a big setback and had to start building up again.

                The muscle relaxants were a big part of being able to get him working though.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by asterix View Post
                  Nothing to add except that I have no idea how you convince a horse to eat hay when they are on really good pasture 24/7. Assuming you are wrong about them "needing" hay no matter what since we have 20 horses living out full time on 70 well-managed acres - they wouldn't touch hay these days if you paid them
                  This made me laugh since I was thinking the exact same thing. The only thing my geldings might do with hay right now is sleep or pee on it seeing as they are on 50 acres of really good pasture.

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