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PD's Comments re: Rolex - Add a CIC***?

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  • #21
    I do think that somehow increasing entries and thus spectator enjoyment has merit. However, Phillip's solution does not keep some riders from having to wait all day and ride late. And yes, what about Jersey Fresh?
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    • #22
      Originally posted by CookiePony View Post
      I do think that somehow increasing entries and thus spectator enjoyment has merit. However, Phillip's solution does not keep some riders from having to wait all day and ride late. And yes, what about Jersey Fresh?
      He's not arguing that the day was too long, he's arguing that it was artificially too long with large gaps of time with nothing happening that lulled both spectators and competitors into a low energy state that affected crowd excitement and performance.

      I agree that there needs to be some sort of additional competition going on. That lunch break was way way way too long. And looking at Peter's helmet cam, there were not that many spectators out on xc this year compared to prior years.

      This year's Rolex actually was about normal as far as starters so it's not a one time thing. And with the current coach placing emphasis on European competition, it's not going to get bigger. For the 2008-2010 cycle there were two championships over Mike E-S courses so there was a big incentive to ride Rolex.

      If you're worried about Jersey Fresh, have the Kentucky even be a one star instead of a three star.

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      • #23
        I remember attending a calendar seminar at one of the USEA conventions and to squeeze this and that into the schedule is very, very difficult.
        Whenever you add one thing to someone's event, you take something away from someone else's event.
        Here's a list of events that would be directly affected by the addition of a CIC, CCI or other internationally recognized division at Rolex Kentucky:
        Jersey Fresh
        The Fork
        Poplar Place
        Ocala Horse Properties CCI
        Chattahoochee
        Weatherford and Greenwood Farm, TX
        Galway Downs
        Twin Rivers

        I think you have to consider the impact on the smaller yet vital American events that are digging deep and squeezing to provide the FEI-level divisions to riders in this country. I'm not for or against, just bringing out that it's a big impact with lots of ripples to make such a change.
        Proud & Permanent Student Of The Long Road
        Read me: EN (http://eventingnation.com/author/annemarch/) and HJU (http://horsejunkiesunited.com/author/holly-covey/)

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        • #24
          I think a two star would work. And it would be valuable for the horses. There are plenty at that level. Just an opinion.
          May the sun shine on you daily, and your worries be gone with the wind.
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          • #25
            I think the lunch break is pretty much hideous for us vendors too. There's no way we can cope with the sudden influx of people. You can't get enough extra staff in your 10 x 20 booth to handle everyone. You can't employ specialist people and fly them out to Kentucky, and pay them for 90 minutes work! The food people of course, sell a ton of food in that break, but the experience for spectators is hideous. Nobody wants to line up for 30 minutes for lunch.

            Spectators were down in part because horrible weather was threatened.

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            • #26
              The Australian International 3DE (Adelaide) has been running CIC** & CCI** classes alongside the CCI**** for quite a while now (it was a CCI*** running alongside for a while).

              It's great for the up & coming riders/horses to compete at this event, as well as providing more interest for the spectators. I spectated at Rolex in 2011 & think it would work well there too.
              www.thehaybale.blogspot.com.au

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              • #27
                When I first started attending Rolex when it was a 3* they were either running and advanced or * with it. So the day was more full.

                I think the real question to be answered is why does Rolex not get more entries? Badminton had a wait list of 50 rider/horse combinations this year and they run a lot more entries than Rolex does.

                I think they should look at moving the Rolex date. Running the week before Badminton seems to be a poor idea.
                A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by FitToBeTied View Post
                  I think they should look at moving the Rolex date. Running the week before Badminton seems to be a poor idea.
                  The question is when to move it to. Go a month earlier, and people don't have enough time to get their horse fit after a winter break. Go a month later, and you risk the heat being worse.

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                  • #29
                    I agree that if there were more horses I would be more likely to take a break and shop. I didn't buy anything but a t shirt this year, because the lines were impossible. But I don't dare miss the few 4* horses.
                    I would love to see a 3*, it would be a valuable addition to our International prospects to have that experience.
                    I would hate to see PD try to ride 6 horses in one day though. Yuck.
                    www.ncsporthorse.com

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by FitToBeTied View Post
                      I think the real question to be answered is why does Rolex not get more entries? Badminton had a wait list of 50 rider/horse combinations this year and they run a lot more entries than Rolex does.
                      IMHO... Geography.

                      A quick look at the 123 horse/rider combinations listed on the Badminton site, and you see that 97 of those combinations are European nationalities. The rest are a mix of USA, Canada, NZL and Australian (I didn't count them because I'm not 100% positive who is based in GBR and who is based at home, so assuming they came from their respective countries and shipped in is probably the better statistical assumption). 97. That's more than TWICE the number of entries Rolex had all together! My guess is that the cost of travelling from Italy or Spain to Badminton is a heck of a lot cheaper than travelling all the way here. It's a simple economic fact based on geography that isn't bound to change unless there is the incentive to do so.

                      I truly wonder if there would be support for a CCI* at Rolex. It used to be there, but back then, not only was it long format of course but the CCI* was still a qualifier for CCI**. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the 1* is no longer "needed" as a qualification. Still... it would be a shot in the arm I think to have one. AND I don't think it would interefere with any going events. Personally I'd love to see them host a long format... kind of a nod to history and tradition... and that definitely wouldn't interfere with a going event since there's only 1 other P3DE in the US and that's AT KHP in October (thank you MSEDA and Mary Fike!!)
                      ************
                      "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                      "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

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                      • #31
                        I remember going to Rolex when the long format was in place. I did enjoy watching the steeplechase and then on to the XC... There is certainly enough time to do a piggy back event and it would be exciting to see some up and coming riders and horses.
                        What event should run I am not sure but it would be worth the time spent out on course.. This year with all the falls and withdrawals there was a lot of waiting time on the course and with the weather not being so nice it was a tough day.
                        The costs of coming to this side of the pond and the possiblity of a horse getting sick on trip is not worth the effort. There are plenty of events closer to home for them. It is unfortunate that our best does not get to compete regularly against other countries. They would cetainly be challenged more...
                        Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
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                        • #32
                          I agree that adding a 3* is an excellent idea. I like his point about the afternoon riders not being careful enough (IMO, there were a few that were totally unprepared and in over their head) and how the 3* would be an opportunity for them to get more experience before tackling a 4*. Perhaps the first timers that weren't prepared need more than the winter season to prep for a 4*, but feel rushed to get their opportunity in KY, because it is the affordable option for them, instead of travelling out of the country. Like others have said, the 3* would give them the experience with crowds and atmosphere without having to run the 4* just yet.

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                          • #33
                            Yes, too many long breaks indeed.

                            Maybe Badminton could move back a few weeks to later in May...
                            Boss Mare Eventing Blog
                            https://www.youtube.com/user/jealoushe

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                            • #34
                              Maybe we need our own Rolex Grassroots championships... along the lines of what Mitsubishi sponsors for the 'pre-badminton' competition:

                              http://grassroots.badminton-horse.co.uk/

                              If the entry fees go down to $100 (isn't that how much Rolex is??), I'm sure more people would book the time off and save their pennies to have a really memorable week in Kentucky. I know I would do my darndest to be there...

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Yeah, let them have a CIC3*; it would save Fair Hill a heck of a lot of money... so much for trying to provide events for competitors and then there is a low entry.

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by JER View Post
                                  Running a *** in some form might keep some of the inappropriate combinations out of the CCI****. You can still have Rolex as your goal without exceeding your capabilities.

                                  While I agree the long breaks don't make for the best day out, I prefer watching nothing to cringing at those who are not up to the level.
                                  ^^^

                                  What JER said.



                                  But seriously, I do think the idea of exposure for less experienced horses/riders is invaluable. Keeping it consistent at the level (Advanced), would allow leveraging of courses, logistics, etc. Wishful thinking: add a 2* alongside it, to REALLY gauge the up-and-comers.

                                  The last time I went was 2010. Even then, there was way too much dead time. Of course, I soak up every second I can with my friends - many of whom I only ever see in Kentucky. But to Phillip's point, I couldn't agree more. The horses should run in succession, and the open part of the day could be occupied by other scheduled events.

                                  Why not get the top placed riders after XC to do for-pay photo sessions at iconic fences on course? A photographer (since there's usually one or two around ) could be stationed, and for $15-$20 you could do a shot to use for your holiday greeting card! Proceeds could benefit a non-profit, or even PRO.
                                  When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.

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                                  • #37
                                    One of the more unique parts of Rolex is the accessibility of top riders to their fans. There are lots of autograph signings, etc. That is good for the sport. Adding another competition may impact that factor.

                                    That said, I would throw this idea out there: what about a FEH competition? It gives breeders a chance to showcase their young stock to lots of people. Heck I would even add some "on the line" and dressage competition for the 3 year olds and under.
                                    www.canterusa.org

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by NMK View Post
                                      One of the more unique parts of Rolex is the accessibility of top riders to their fans. There are lots of autograph signings, etc. That is good for the sport. Adding another competition may impact that factor.
                                      Except that you increase the pool of advanced riders at the venue because given more options more competitors will be on site. I can think of several red coated riders not competing last week. There is even the possibility that giving more riders the opportunity to shine in Rolex's spotlight might very well increase the availability of sponsorships.

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by JER View Post
                                        Running a *** in some form might keep some of the inappropriate combinations out of the CCI****. You can still have Rolex as your goal without exceeding your capabilities.

                                        While I agree the long breaks don't make for the best day out, I prefer watching nothing to cringing at those who are not up to the level.
                                        Again, this.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          FWIW, as a lifelong horsewoman and two-time spectator to Rolex I will toss out here that adding any other level of competition to the Rolex would not make it better for me. I go to Rolex to see the great ones, the eventing legends and the ones knocking on greatness door. If the morning was made one level and the afternoon was the 4* (or vice versa) then I would shop in during the lower level and camp out on course during the 4*.

                                          I used the gaps of time to move along the course to watch different fences. Phillp's own withdrawl of the one horse late in the day caused confusion on the course. Folks beside me said "he withdrew the horse" meanwhile on the jumbro tron we could see that the horse had started the course only to pull up before making it to the back end of the course where we were.

                                          If it makes sense business wise to add something else then go ahead and add it.

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